BB Bastard Universal MSED a good guide?

[shreddybear]

Hello all,

Did a bit of research on this, but I'm not quite satisfied. Would like to hear some opinions. I'd like to know if people here think this guide (link below) regarding minimum safe engagement distances is safe/accurate--a good guide to go by.

Here's the link: http://msed.bbbastard.com/ATP/06-c-01.htm

I play with a small group of friends on a private farm in the country (lots of private land, away from roads, etc.) and we use this guide for our own MSEDs.

We're a small group, wear proper face gear, and play responsibly. We mostly play with pistols and aegs that max out around 400FPS (on .2s).

Reason I'm bring this up is because some of us wouldn't mind using some DMR (well, attempted DMR) builds that reach up to 500FPS on .2s (would be using .3s). EDIT - I say reach up to 500fps, we have it set lower however.

This guide indicates 60ft should be an adequate MSED for that kind of power. Any thoughts or things I might be missing? The BB can't accelerate beyond the speed it's travelling after it leaves the barrel I assume?

Thanks for any tips, tricks, and advice!
Shreddy

[ThunderCactus]

Most groups use 50-70ft for 470fps, so yeah should be fine.
Rule of thumb is "don't shoot someone from a distance that you wouldn't want to be shot from"

[shreddybear]

For sure!

We usually make the MSED a bit farther than what the guide says, just to be safe. Been working on flat hopping a Tippmann M4. When I put a tightbore 6.03 in, the FPS went up a good 100... It's at about 450 with .2s now, but I do understand joule creep with gbb and heavier bbs, that's why I really like this chart.

You know, just a minute ago I was reading an old post of yours and chuckled at the "Hates DMRs" bit... Thanks for replying so fast!

Nifty coincidence.

[Ricochet]

MSED isn't the only thing to consider. Although higher FPS CAN help with distance, due to the ability to support higher BB weights, assuming your hop-up and gun are tuned properly, it isn't always a guarantee. Let me ask you a question: how would you feel if your friend's gun shoots a lot hotter than yours, but doesn't really outshoot yours for distance? What would be the point of making the gun shoot more dangerously? If it doesn't provide a distance advantage, then you're only creating a less safe environment for no reason. Players who can't afford properly tuned guns or properly modded guns tend to run to FPS increases to compete, but this is a folly.

Most places have gotten away from the DMR class, for any number of these reasons. As far as MSED goes, yes sixty feet should be adequate, assuming your guns don't suffer from joule creep or temperature swing, like most GBBRs or Polar-Stars and similar. 500 FPS is a bit extreme and is usually reserved for a sniper class that is bolt action, or single pull only, and has a higher MSED. Most DMR classes are at a limit of 450 FPS with 0.20g and require a full length gun platform, such as M16 versus M4, the gun fully pinned into semi-auto only and some DMR furniture like a scope, bipod, etc. Otherwise, buddy is running around with the same gun you have, just it shoots hotter and more dangerously.

No, DMR class is mostly stupid, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Remember, FPS isn't a guarantee of range efficiency, just a guarantee of less safety.

People usually want a DMR range for one of two reasons; for starters, they don't have the money or effort to properly tune their gun, which is their problem and should remain as such, or their primary gun shoots hot for some reason and they want to fit it into the game somehow without screwing it up, which is also their problem.

[shreddybear]

For sure, we're working to achieve good range and accuracy without boosting FPS. 450 (on .2s) is the highest we go.

When I mentioned my FPS increasing 100 after putting a tbb in, I was actually annoyed. The barrel quality is much better than the original, but the FPS increase is a bit of pain (regarding safety). Luckily it's adjustable.

Did some experimenting and while I could reach out far with the FPS set over 500, it just isn't worth it to me as I know with a good hopup, bucking, barrel, etc., I could achieve such distances with a much lower, safer FPS.

And totally know what you mean regarding high FPS vs a finely tuned gun. I'd rather have a good hopup, bucking, bb weight, barrel, etc., and achieve better performance without having high, unsafe--well, that depends on MSED and responsibility of the player--FPS.

I suppose higher FPS could give a slight speed advantage (with the right bb weight of course). But that depends on many things as well.

Anyway, we really do try to be as safe as we can, mostly just interested in how people felt about the BB Bastard Guide and whether the MSEDs were appropriate.

Oh, and when I mention DMR--I might be using the term wrong--I just mean we're working on getting our guns to perform as best they can. To me, that means getting them firing as far and accurately as possible without high FPS. Also, a lower FPS certainly helps with efficiency by saving gas for more shots and consistent pressure.

Now, being responsible (e.g., MSEDs), having a well tuned gun (hopup, bucking, etc.), and a higher FPS can indeed be beneficial, but again, we're not in this sport to hurt each other! We draw the limit, we don't all want sniper MSEDs! ...Yet...

Thanks for replying.