Replicas siezed in York Region

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by DarkAngel

OMG A LOOPHOLE!!!! I THINK I FOUND A LOOPHOLE!!!

Under Deactivated Firearms it states
6) A Properly deactivated firearm is not considered a firearm because it cannot fire a projectile and, therefore, does not meet the definition of a firearm in section 2 of the Criminial Code.
Does that mean, if you remove the piston in AEGs, can you still import it? ;p
lol, *crossing fingers*

God, please calm down. Your going to give yourself an ulcer. First of all, let me break it down... (all according to how the Customs sees it)

Under 407 fps = not firearm period, therefore replica, therefore NO. Generally any stock airsoft gun.
Over 407 fps but under 500 fps = firearm but does not have to be registered. Airsoft may qualify.
Over 500 fps = firearm and must be registered.

As for deactivated firearms. You would have to prove that it was indeed a firearm. Good luck if you're just importing.

[kalnaren]

If it's deactivated wouldn't they pretty much see it as a replica?

[Oprah]

Originally Posted by Gerkraz

I call bullshit. There's no way that you're really Oprah!

lol, what?

You can bet my sweet chocolate black ass I am.

Now let's get down to business. I vote we bake AEG's and GBB's into cakes and reopen the underground railroad.

Gerkraz of the planet Blortek can get his fellow gerkrazian friends to ban together and form manufacturing sweatshops.

And after this commercial break - .2's or .25's does size ~really~ matter?

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

If it's deactivated wouldn't they pretty much see it as a replica?

Since you're importing it, you could never prove it was a firearm in the first place, and like Kalnaren said, you've got yourself a replica.

[baraccuda]

there would be no point in taking any thing out becuase in order for a Fire arm to be considered Deactivated you need to fallow certain steps witch in the end render the air soft gun usless Or real fire arm usless e.g. =

"A hardened steel blind pin of bore diameter or
larger must be force fit through the barrel at the
chamber, and where practical, simultaneously
through the frame or receiver, to permanently
prevent chambering of ammunition. Furthermore,
the blind pin must be permanently welded in place
so that the exposed end of the pin is completely
covered by weld. The strength and hardness of
the weld must be that of the metal used in the
construction of the firearm. In the case of firearms
having calibres greater than 12.7 mm (.5 inch), the
pin need not be larger in diameter than 12.7 mm.
In the case of multi-barrelled firearms, all barrels
must be pinned, using as many pins as necessary
to block all chambers."

and after that:
"the firearm must first be
confirmed by a gunsmith, to no longer be considered a
firearm as per the definition of a "firearm" in S. 2 of the
Criminal Code."


That was just an idea of what you have to do for it to become Deactivated
here is the link if you would like to read more:
http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/online-en_...DFs/1023_e.pdf

[yanhchan]

Originally Posted by Oprah

You can bet my sweet chocolate black ass I am.

Now let's get down to business. I vote we bake AEG's and GBB's into cakes and reopen the underground railroad.

Gerkraz of the planet Blortek can get his fellow gerkrazian friends to ban together and form manufacturing sweatshops.

And after this commercial break - .2's or .25's does size ~really~ matter?

Hey its weight not size...they're the same size!!!

[kalnaren]

On a serious note, does anyone with a little more experiance with this matter think that the 407+ fps thing is worth looking into?

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

On a serious note, does anyone with a little more experiance with this matter think that the 407+ fps thing is worth looking into?

What kind of experience are you looking for. I've been investigating this, with mcguyver's help for months. It has potential.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by frankiet

That's the whole point of getting the upgrade. It would no longer be a replica (in the laws eyes), and wouldn't require any liscence. Any joe could do it.

I'll clue you guys into something: The CBSA doesn't give a rats ass about FPS anymore. Peter Kang played that card and it's no longer valid. Everything is a replica, will be seized and you will have to appeal it all the way to CITT before FPS becomes a valid defense. Peter Kang's appeal took 6 years and 3 months from seizure until CITT appeal.

Can the 30 year pizza delivery guys on ASC who live in their parents' basement wait that long to get their gun? Or how about the "students" of whatever who never have any money anyways? I thought not.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by frankiet

Since you're importing it, you could never prove it was a firearm in the first place, and like Kalnaren said, you've got yourself a replica.

All dewats must first be a registered firearm until it is verified by a CFC verifier to in fact be a dewat. If it would be a prohib prior to deactivation, then you must possess a 12-class license that covers that class of firearm.

Basically, importing a dewat is unavailable for all but a very small group of valid license holders.

Quite frankly, this whole discussion is useless. Everyone with the finger capacity to type but with the mental capacity of a 16 year old "I want it so it must be ok" menality is absolutely appaling.

You guys have no clue how the system actually works, your suggestions are ridiculous to say the least and you have no meaningful responses to the problem at hand.

Far more experienced people are doing far more behind-the-scenes and quite frankly I'm not going to get into it here as it doesn't concern ASC and they will have no bearing on what actions are taken. The members on ASC could not even agree on the colour of shit, let alone a complex legal manoever.

What does happen will happen and those involved reach deeper than this discussion. Don't even bother to post up asking what I'm talking about, because I won't waste my time explaining it. What will happen will happen and it will be spearheaded from the West.

[mcguyver]

I'm not targeting you specifically frnakiet, but I quoted your post as an example.

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I'll clue you guys into something: The CBSA doesn't give a rats ass about FPS anymore. Peter Kang played that card and it's no longer valid. Everything is a replica, will be seized and you will have to appeal it all the way to CITT before FPS becomes a valid defense. Peter Kang's appeal took 6 years and 3 months from seizure until CITT appeal.

Actually, they did care about fps. Kang was contesting that the two guns in question, a baretta and M11 I believe, did cause bodily harm. The following is straight from the decision ...

9. The CBSA submitted that the guns in issue are not firearms since the projectiles that they discharge are unlikely to cause serious bodily injury or death to a person, as required by the definition of a “firearm” pursuant to section 2 of the Criminal Code. The Tribunal agrees with the CBSA that, to be considered a firearm, an airsoft pistol must have a muzzle velocity that exceeds 124 metres per second (407 feet per second). Because the guns in issue all have muzzle velocities that are below this threshold,6 the Tribunal agrees with the CBSA that they are not firearms. Based on the definition of “firearm” found in section 2 of the Criminal Code, the Tribunal is satisfied that the second condition of the definition of a “replica firearm” is fulfilled, i.e. each pistol in issue itself is not a firearm. As for Asia Pacific’s reference to an article in the May 2001 issue of the American Journal of Ophthalmology that documented an eye injury caused by an airsoft pistol, the Tribunal agrees with the CBSA that this matter is not relevant to this appeal because this incident did not involve the guns in issue.

They decision didn't go Kang's way because those two guns didn't fire over 407 fps. It seems to me that above 407 fps would be allowed by this decision.

Over 407 but below 500 = firearm not requiring registration and able to import.

On a side note, the last part about the Tribunal dismissing the Ophthalmology findings seems a little ignorant. At question was not which gun is firing, but the ballistics behind injury. An M4 firing a 280 fps bb will be the same as any other gun firing a 280 fps bb.

Bottom line is that the Tribunal seems to be under the impression that over 407 fps is not a replica.

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I'm not targeting you specifically frnakiet, but I quoted your post as an example.

Hey, I don't take it personally. I respect your opinion, and you've helped me greatly. No problems, but see my previous post.

[mcguyver]

That was then. Now, today, they no longer care. All are considered replicas. They no longer want to invest effort in splitting a legal hair. The CBSA will seize it PERIOD and let the CITT sort it out. The can enforce seizure how they see fit, whether we agree to its merits or not.

That sort of takes away the velocity argument, doesn't it?

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

That was then. Now, today, they no longer care. All are considered replicas. They no longer want to invest effort in splitting a legal hair. The CBSA will seize it PERIOD and let the CITT sort it out. The can enforce seizure how they see fit, whether we agree to its merits or not.

That sort of takes away the velocity argument, doesn't it?

But this is why I want to see guidelines in writing. Yes they can seize anything, but they cannot indiscriminantly destroy things. Yes they can tie things up for an eternity, but until I see something in writing that all airsoft are replicas, then I'll keep investigating that avenue. Right now, most airsoft is considered replicas, but they are dealt with on a case by case basis. Either way, the issue must be pressed. I have requested guidelines in writing several times, and received zero responses. I've even given a specific example of an AEG from UNCompany shooting 450, and received no response. I may be reading between the lines, but I'm interpreting their lack of response as a weakness. They don't want to commit to anything in writing because it could open the floodgates. If they are all replicas, I'm sure I would have received that word immediately.