Canadian Vs. Overseas businesses

[Rugger_can]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

I think I would buy in Canada, keep the dollar in country. Not that a small purchase like that would really affect anything anyways.

Prices in Canada have never been better and to those who think that their pockets are being raped now well...at least you weren't around a few years ago because the pricing then probably would have killed you.

Gee I clearly remember what I paid when I got started, and I can tell you that I never paid a 700% markup.

But in all honesty you are right, things are getting better and right now they are plenty of honest retailers selling quality product for Fair prices.

Originally Posted by Styrak

The half-clear guns everyone gets from CAS are at the same price because CAS artificially inflates the price to begin with. It's not the retailer's fault.

I completely agree with you, clearly there are legitimate reasons for some of the disparities that are easy to understand.

Here's a hypothetical situation, Lets say Im a retailer. And I set up a system where by you request items from me. I have you select said items using Red wolf airsoft's website, thus clearly showing you what they are going to cost me. Only for me to turn around and demand that you pay 300% markup PLUS shipping on top. Is this fair? Considering that I the retailer shoulder no financial risk as I force you to pay upfront.

If anyone. And I mean anyone can tell me the justification for that then by all means...

[VooDooPeteK]

One thing to remember is that if someone say in the US was to distribute guns in Canada they would be selling them to someone that was then going to retail them so we would in fact be buying "Canadian".

Also the people that currently deal direct with the manufacturers are super inflating the prices as anything from over seas doesn't cost that much more to ship to Canada over the US nor is it that much more difficult to bring them in (if the guidelines are met)

the more competition the better IMO, prices will get to where they should be and there will be more B&R shops with product (this will save in shipping as well as help your local community)

[TokyoSeven]

Wait wait wait wait stop for a second....something just occurred to me.

As it stands right now we already have some retailers that source their product their American suppliers. However we also have retailers who sourced direct from Asian suppliers and even a couple of folks who source from factory.

Aside from low end garbage that I wont even count and the fact that most of the actual American brands are asian rebrands....are you guys picking it up yet?

Whats the point of another middle man? I dont see any point in adding another party to the story. More hands means more money involved most of the time. It would be all fantastic fine and dandy if it were some how possibe for an American company to source airsoft guns direct from their manufactures and then some how magically get them into Canada for an extreme low cost. There was another point I had as well but I cant remeber what it was about...I think it had something to do with donuts.

Originally Posted by Rugger_can

Gee I clearly remember what I paid when I got started, and I can tell you that I never paid a 700% markup.

But in all honesty you are right, things are getting better and right now they are plenty of honest retailers selling quality product for Fair prices.

Maybe not 700% but now a days BNIB M4 CA goes for about 5-600CAD as opposed to 8-900CAD. There is a noticeable difference that's for sure.

[Cilantro]

[TokyoSeven]

Originally Posted by Cilantro

and what has been will be again, and again and again and again.
I predict a new newb "is this a good gun thread" with in the next 36 hours.
Another "what good for under $200" with in 48 hours and possibly another sky is falling thread sometime next week.

[VooDooPeteK]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

Wait wait wait wait stop for a second....something just occurred to me.

As it stands right now we already have some retailers that source their product their American suppliers. However we also have retailers who sourced direct from Asian suppliers and even a couple of folks who source from factory.

Whats the point of another middle man? I dont see any point in adding another party to the story. More hands means more money involved most of the time. It would be all fantastic fine and dandy if it were some how possibe for an American company to source airsoft guns direct from their manufactures and then some how magically get them into Canada for an extreme low cost. There was another point I had as well but I cant remeber what it was about...I think it had something to do with donuts.

So if the Americans can bring items into the US and sell for lower costs why can't the Canadians if they are dealing direct?

All I am saying is bring it on and in for that matter who is it gonna hurt? If the Canadian distributors think it will hurt them then that means they know what are over priced....same goes with the retailers.

If they think the prices they sell for the stuff is fair and good they have nothing to worry about right?

[TokyoSeven]

Originally Posted by VooDooPeteK

So if the Americans can bring items into the US and sell for lower costs why can't the Canadians if they are dealing direct?

Ah the question that many people have asked over many years. I have no direct answer for you...or at least not an answer you would want. So here is a picture of an onion instead.



That sure is a nice onion isnt it?

[baker_Jeff]

Personally I mark up items I carry anywhere from 15-80%. It depends on the item, where it comes from, and how it was shipped. It also depends on the popularity of the item, and how long I think it's going to sit on the shelf. Most things I list at MSRP if possible. I'm not trying to rip anyone off, but g'damn I have alot of expenses because of this business. Sooner than later, it will be my only livelihood, and I will be using it to pay all the bills, mortgage, and to pay for food.

Because of this, things will probably be marked up a bit more.

Personally, I think the reason our stuff (I'm talking legal stuff here, not smuggled or BFL abused guns) is marked up SO high compared to american stuff... is the demand.

An american retailer can sell 100 guns in a day for example. They have small markup, but they make up for it with the fact that they have the market to sell many, many guns.

Here... I might sell none in a day, some days 2 or 3. I can't afford to sell them for less. It's not because people are willing to pay it, or that I want to "get rich", it's just that I need to make a certain amount of profit in a month to pay the bills and then to buy more product.

People are so quick to jump on CAS and even 007 for charging "300%" markup on guns that cost next to nothing in other countries... but the markets are absolutely MASSIVE in those other countries. How many retailers does CAS and 007 have here that they can wholesale to? Hardly any! How are they supposed to maintain their M-F businesses if they don't make enough money on the products that they do sell?

That being said, I will support Canadian businesses as much as possible. I do buy from american and asian wholesalers, but anything I can get here in Canada, I will.

That's my couple cents!

Jeff

[Rugger_can]

Originally Posted by VooDooPeteK

So if the Americans can bring items into the US and sell for lower costs why can't the Canadians if they are dealing direct?

Your never going to get an answer to that.. Even though you already know the answer.. We all do and no one will admit it too themselves nor will anyone say it out loud because frankly its not very pleasant.

And Jeff, Im not pointing fingers at anyone least of all you. But frankly in the same argument Ive had people say that Demand is high therefore prices are high, and Ive had people say Demand is low so therefore prices are high. Ive had people justify it all kinds of ways. But it does not really matter, because the people that are operating legit business and are selling for reasonable markups are not the problem. We understand and can accept the fair prices that are being offered by 80% of the retailers.

You know it and I know it, Everyone knows who's the elephant, we just don't want to talk about them.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by VooDooPeteK

So if the Americans can bring items into the US and sell for lower costs why can't the Canadians if they are dealing direct?

This will open a can of shitfest that some of us would like to forget, any chance of any of us bringing anything in with any blessing from the authorities died with a certain importer long ago. What ever Mach1/safesoft are doing are the same thing in a different time and also a lot more responsible. Whatever or wherever it comes from we can still get our "toys" the high price we pay is a small price for all the headaches that the retailer have to go through..........My opinion is if you want a certain item bad enough then you better be willing to pay for it, whether it originate from Canadian or American retailer it comes from the same place and our money is going to neither the American or Canadian economy. The Bottomline is as long as I can get my "toys" I really couldn't give two shit where it comes from.

[Con Murder]

I for one can handle the steep price if it keeps these out-of-school-ready-to-pown creeps off the field. I know a rich jerk can always buy in but if you eliminate his six retard friends due to price then I smile. Ya our american cousins get a better deal, but they also have more 14 yr olds with CA or G&P m4 set-ups that I refuse to play with. Given the chance to save I would jump at it but at what cost? I can clearly understand Jeff and I would reason that us as a community want him to do nothing but help us with supplies. Quit your real job man, live the dream! I need a new 416 soon enough as it is so that should get ya a nice box of KD

[Munaro]

Originally Posted by baker_Jeff

Personally I mark up items I carry anywhere from 15-80%. It depends on the item, where it comes from, and how it was shipped. It also depends on the popularity of the item, and how long I think it's going to sit on the shelf. Most things I list at MSRP if possible. I'm not trying to rip anyone off, but g'damn I have alot of expenses because of this business. Sooner than later, it will be my only livelihood, and I will be using it to pay all the bills, mortgage, and to pay for food.

Because of this, things will probably be marked up a bit more.

Personally, I think the reason our stuff (I'm talking legal stuff here, not smuggled or BFL abused guns) is marked up SO high compared to american stuff... is the demand.

An american retailer can sell 100 guns in a day for example. They have small markup, but they make up for it with the fact that they have the market to sell many, many guns.

Here... I might sell none in a day, some days 2 or 3. I can't afford to sell them for less. It's not because people are willing to pay it, or that I want to "get rich", it's just that I need to make a certain amount of profit in a month to pay the bills and then to buy more product.

People are so quick to jump on CAS and even 007 for charging "300%" markup on guns that cost next to nothing in other countries... but the markets are absolutely MASSIVE in those other countries. How many retailers does CAS and 007 have here that they can wholesale to? Hardly any! How are they supposed to maintain their M-F businesses if they don't make enough money on the products that they do sell?

That being said, I will support Canadian businesses as much as possible. I do buy from american and asian wholesalers, but anything I can get here in Canada, I will.

That's my couple cents!

Jeff

good post.

Its not only airsoft that has these same issue's. Canada is one of the largest country's in the world with a fairly small population. Its no wonder things are a little more costly. And I think you would see vary quickly if the states started selling in Canada there prices would go up before to long or they would discontinue selling in Canada. Yes airsoft is fairly expensive, but if it was super cheap then the community would slide into a community like paintball vary fast. and I personaly am not a huge fan of that community (ex speed ball player). In my opinion a few grand a year to play a sport I love isn't asking to much. It cost 5000 bucks to put my step bro's in hockey for heck sakes.

[VooDooPeteK]

Jeff I am not pointing fingers at all at one one retailer

I know you guys need to make money and bay bills as well as live.

You say you sell 1 (maybe 2 or 3) guns a day, now imagine if you could sell those guns at a good price (starter price, say 120 -150 like in the US) how many would you sell then

demand is low here because of the cost IMO, some will say that the low end guns in the US are crap but they are great starter guns and 1000 times better then the walmart guns. If we had those guns in canada what would the market be like then? People would try the sport out more...Like it and spend more on upgrades or new guns.

TS you say Ah the question that many people have asked over many years. I have no direct answer for you...or at least not an answer you would want. So here is a picture of an onion instead. " but sometimes any answer is better then none right????

see the hard core don't want the cheap stuff int he market but its needed.. just as some say they don't want the kids/noobs but they are the next gen of the sport.

I was into paintball before it was huge and saw the same thing and to be honest if was the prizes and crap that killed paintball IMO no the mass market stuff.

Back to Jeff... Yes if something is gonna sit on the shelf longer then you charge more we all get that and respect that.

I have had retail store in the past so I understand, but I also changed distributors if needed to keep price down to I could sell more product faster at a better price.

so My question to the retailers is.. Would you buy wholesale from another company out side of Canada if you could get guns in and sell them at a better price to other Canadians?

[The Acer]

A good chuck of the money from any new sales goes directly to Asian between the gun itself, shipping cost and exchange rate.

So When you says Canadian Pride, I dont buy that. Because very little money ends up in the retailer's hands. The rest goes to the importer, shipping and to Asian.

[Munaro]

Originally Posted by The Acer

A good chuck of the money from any new sales goes directly to Asian between the gun itself, shipping cost and exchange rate.

So When you says Canadian Pride, I dont buy that. Because very little money ends up in the retailer's hands. The rest goes to the importer, shipping and to Asian.

true, but the little of money that the retailer see's keeps food in him and his family's mouth, and guns in your hand. I mean im fairly new to airsoft, and in my few months of research I saw price drops in local store's. so it is coming down as the sport grows. And as the sport clears its legality. Do i want things to be cheaper so I can buy more? yes, but do I also want to keep Canadians selling to Canadians? Defiantly. A lot of Canadian retailers bust there balls to get the guns in our hands, that's vary apparent. So for there hard work I can live with a bit of mark up, hell my cellphone provider is raping me where the sun dosent shine, that bothers me more then my friendly neighborhood airsoft retailer having his turn too lol, at least he works a little for it. heck just my opinion, all in all I just want to say I appreciate what a lot of retailers have done for the sport. and what people like saint have done.

My business will stay in Canada for the time being. (not that I actually have a choice atm so that claim is pretty usless ha ha but I look loyal though don't I? ^^)