Yes or no? Systema high speed with m120 spring?

[Greylocks]

He asked about HIGH SPEED gears, not HIGH TORQUE.

High Speed + M120 = tossing money away.

And yes, I've been to university too.

[Cortexburn]

In short and taken from HERE :

"High Speed Gear: Increases the rate of fire. Do not use a spring stiffer than M100. This gear also gives lower delay time between trigger pull and fire."

If you do use a M120 and high speed gears realise that often when the gears nuke themselves they can very well ( especially if it's the sector gear ) take the piston with it.

In AEG's the higher the fps = lower the rof. (Generally)

Originally Posted by mcguyver

alot of guys use the g&p guns with 210% pdi springs with reinforced gears and many thousands of rounds and no gear failures.

I'm pretty sure they arn't using PDI 210% springs unless you guys like playing in the high 400 fps range.

[mcguyver]

i was just reading my post and i don't see where i said "high speed gears" i said regular cut gears which is basically your standard ratio, no increase or decrease in tooth pitch. at no time did i mention high speed gears. he asked and i said use regular cut gears and larger battery. it's done all the time by most manufacturers.

yeah they are around 460-470 with .2 and 430 or so with .25. at some fields there is not much for cqb and and all ranges are long. if there were going to be gear failures you'd think you would see it with high energy springs but it just hasn't happened here yet. not even piston failures. they have been tappet and selector failures and factory motor/gear engagement issues. these guns use standard ratio gears with an eg700 motor and use 9.6 volt batteries with 14-15 rounds/second. so i don't think my advice is off the mark. if you can't do quality work reassembling a mechbox it doesn't really matter what parts you put because it will fail. i've gotten guns upgraded by either the owner or someone who shouldn't have done it with questions like "it should work fine these parts cost me hundreds" only to open it up and say "oh my god. it's like a bomb went off in there". i've got some helical super torque up gears in my scrap pile now torn to hell. i replaced with reinforced standard ratio gears with no problem with springs from pdi, systema, stock g&g and ics. no failures yet. so i do speak from some experience there. but nobody here that i've heard of even has "high speed gears" as replacements and i don't really see the need to use them as most guys want power/reliability upgrades and just get reinforced gear sets anyway. and some guys dump ammo like it's water between gaming and plinking and some guys are just stupid with their guns. there's lots of guys out ther who know enough to open a mechbox and tinker, but don't even think about things like lubrication, shimming, bushing movement, etc. i've seen guys use vaseline even as lubricant and i've opened up mechboxes with only 3 shims inside.

[Mantelope]

He asked if he could use high speed gears, you said you could ALSO use regular ratio gears, implying that he could use high speed gears too.

[mcguyver]

yeah i guess is see where you could get that impression. the word "too" does imply that both can be used but my intent was for "regular cut gears". you're pushing the limit with high speed gears and anything stronger than a stock spring, but i only use standard ratio gears.

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

but nobody here that i've heard of even has "high speed gears" as replacements and i don't really see the need to use them as most guys want power/reliability upgrades and just get reinforced gear sets anyway.

For indoor games, I run an MC51 with an EG1000, Systema High Speed Gears, Systema Bearing Bushings, 9.6 volt 3000 MaH Large NIMH battery pack, and an Angel 120% spring. Measuring the ROF with a microphone and counting the soundwaves, it peaks out at 1240 RPM at 318 fps. :tup:

[pinoyboy]

Alright guys, thanks for clearing things up! mcguyver, are a set of systema standard ratio gears good or do you reccomend another brand?

[Greylocks]

Simple; standard 'reinforced' gears should be fine, or choose a simpler upgrade.

In general, all you really need is a new spring and metal bushings. The rest is optional. The PDI 150 and below tends to be just fine.

The stronger the spring gets, the more complex and expensive the upgrades get.

You may want to read the many posts about Upgrades before doing anything. If you plan on doing all this yourself, check ALL the manuals and picture-based tutorials.

[mcguyver]

i've had no issues with the systema brand as replacements, but other quality gears i've used have been from ics, g&p and hurricane. use quality bushings and remember shimming and lubrication (most overlooked part in gearbox reassembly). systema gears usually come with a shimming guide and you can follow that but use common sense too. if the shimming guide info still leaves too much play or there is too much resistance for smooth gear rolling then adjust as needed by adding or removing shims. as a general rule never stack more than 3 shims on one shaft, just change shim thickness to accomodate the required thickness. then install the tappet (without the spring) and ensure that the sector gear engages the tappet properly and also the semi-auto trigger release sway bar. then you should be fine.

[pinoyboy]

cool, yea I learned out how important shimming was the hard way. I went through the stock, Area 1000, and Deep Fire single titanium tooth.

But yea, I've been using white lithium greese for lubrication. I just put enough to cover where the gears contact each other. Is that enough?

[mcguyver]

don't use lithium. it breaks down into a black sludge and becomes real sticky, so it's lubricative value is negligable. use a gear grease with wide temp range and you should be ok. use a silicone grease for the cylinder which can be manufactured using dow corning #111 and 10 weight silicone oil. just thin down the #111 until it's the consistancy of syrup and you're good to go. it's nonreactive with silicone oil used for general lubrication and doesn't break down.