Troubleshooting new build: Opinion requested!

[Flarebrass]

Hey guys,

It seems I have solved the tappet plate issue and modified a SHS nylon tappet plate that is shorter than the stop lonex one and fits pretty good. I am now however, experiencing another problem.

I was working on finishing my gearbox again last night (broken record much?), and I seem to have some across a new problem... YAY!! I think I will name this gearbox; Christine... Anyways, When I put it all together, and get the motor in to test it, as soon as I pull the trigger, it pulls the piston all the way back, but won't release it OR just whines a bit and wont move the piston at all. I checked the gears to see if they were shimmed properly, and they are and spinn 2-3 times before stopping on their own in the gearbox when shimming (however, could it be the bevel gear is slightly too tight, stopping the motor from turning the gears as a whole as it takes a lot of torque to pull 10.44:1 gears??? Being too tight might stop it?). I did not mess with the motor height as the gears I put into it were exactly the same, just a different ratio (Siegetek 14.09:1 to siegetek 10.44:1, SSG both short-stroked the 3 teeth). The motor "hums" when I pull the trigger, making it seem like all the electrical is working and that the motor wants to go, but it wont release the piston or even pull it at times (numerous dis-assemblies and re-assemblies). I modified the SHS tappet plate to match the lonex one and it moves backwards and forwards properly. What do you think this could be. Frankly, I am getting extremely frustrated with this thing as it has been months of work to get it even to this point, and every time I fix an issue, a brand new one, out of nowhere, arises. Do you guys have any ideas as to where to trouble shoot this issue (as most of my research hasn't lead to much as the seemingly common answer was "check your battery", which is no help to me as my batteries are fine). Please let me know what you think.

Cheers,

Flarebrass

[Stealth]

What battery?

[lurkingknight]

was about to ask the same thing and went back to check the thread to see if you listed it.

[Flarebrass]

Sure, I have 3 Turnigy Nano-tech 11.1v 1100mah (1 15c 2 25c) batteries and one no name battery that is 11.1v 1100mah 15c.

[Varjeal]

Take your spring out of the gearbox, tighten everything back up again, turn your mechbox with the nozzle pointing up. If the piston will not easily slide all the way down (flip the box the other way) and back again, your piston rails are too fat or misaligned. Had this happen recently which is why I responded.

[Stealth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1i5rCMiueE

[lurkingknight]

I'm thinking not enough amps. Was just discussing a build with stealth the steve half, my lonex a1 build with shs 13:1s in my g36 110spring pulls 22.5A and an m4 build with sci 13:1s, lonex a1 and 120 spring is pulling 26A.

Your best battery is pushing 27.5A at full charge in the best case scenario. A 10:1 setup will probably draw more than 30A.

create a parallel battery adapter and tie your 2 25C packs together so you have 2200mah at 25C then you'll be pushing 55A but that's still not very high.

Your batteries probably won't be able to handle the power spikes needed to drive that gun, even in parallel.

[Flarebrass]

Hello again guys,

Thanks for all the help. I love these forums for this kind of stuff!

@Varjeal & Stealth: I did try this and it is actually from steath, the 2nd piston mentioned in that video (2nd gen 15 tooth piston SHS) and moves correctly in the gearbox.

@lurking: Man, I didn't even think about the amperage as a cause. I knew I wanted to run buffertube batteries but totally didn't even think about that portion of things. Would swapping back to the 14:09's be the best route to take then (I don't plan on changing the batteries to a PEQ type). That does make sense as I had the 14:09's in there and it did cycle (before I swapped the tappet plate and the such). What you are saying is I need a honking battery to run the 10:44's.

I will swap the other set of gears back in tonight and see if that makes the difference.

Would this issue be the only cause or would there be another underlining issue?

Thanks for your responses guys!

Flarebrass

[Kokanee]

@OP: IMHO you need to ask yourself what you are putting all these "high speed' components in your mechbox for in the first place. Are you familiar with the concept of "stacking tolerances"?

Basically (for anyone not in the know), if you have a whole bunch of parts that are each off by a small amount, but they are designed to fit and work together, small variances in size and spec can add up to large enough ones to cause problems.

This especially rears it's ugly head when you start throwing random parts from many different manufacturers together. These days, when you buy a quality AEG from a good manufacturer, there is absolutely no need to rip out the mechbox and start from scratch. The shell, gears, cylinder assembly, wiring harness, motor etc should all be of high quality and will last you for years (99% of the time).

Case in point; I have a Classic Army SLR-105 (steel) which I purchased back in 2006. You want to know what upgrades it's had?

1. Replace classic army piston w/ stock TM piston (CA pistons were horrible back then... note I didn't spend $40 on a souped up piston, just a stock TM one. Stock TM pistons are some of the most reliable in the industry, hard to find though sometimes.

2. Changed the spring, gun was shooting 350fps out of the box, upgraded to a higher spring to get it shooting 390fps.

3. Reshimmed.

That's it. Period. In eight years of gaming, I've only cracked the gear box four times, to conduct a (holy cow it's been two seasons, better relube the ole mechbox!) cleaning.

This AEG has never had a stoppage.

So I think the question you need to ask is not IF you can throw all these parts in your gun, but SHOULD you?

[Flarebrass]

@Kokanee: I understand your method! Stock guns don't break as easily and for the most part run for quite a while before you have to open them up. This I understand. However, my goal and purpose of this build was to create a monster that has great distance potential as well as efficiency within the gearbox for great trigger response on semi (I could care less about full auto as most of the games I attend are semi only for riflemen). Keeping those 2 things in mind, that is what this build is based on, and regardless of how well a stock gearbox can run, a well tuned upgraded one (after troubleshooting all the kinks albeit), will run better in the end for my requirements above. I hope this sheds some light on my insanity .

Cheers,

Flarebrass

[lurkingknight]

if you have the materials or a bigger battery I would try that first. Better if you have a watt meter to measure what it's actually drawing. Semi auto spikes a lot more.

The 14:1s might even be close to the max your battery can produce.. remember that the battery's performance drops off as it gets used.. at 1100 mah you're not going to get much game out of it.... this is why most ASM guys stack wicked amounts of C/mah onto these types of builds. It's safer for the packs, otherwise you risk overdrawing packs and potentially damaging/causing a fire.

[Flarebrass]

@Lurking: Assuming that the 14:09's are right on the limit and are the causing factor to this issue, your idea of stacking batteries does make sense, but having limited space on an M4 platform (preferring buffertube batteries), from your experience, how would you propose stacking batteries. What suggestions do you have, or am I just going to have to run around with all 4 on me at once (not the end of the world)? Thanks again.

Cheers,

Flarebrass

[lurkingknight]

external wire, single brick pack.. 25C+ as much mah as you want to stuff into wherever you put it, (stock pouch) IF you want to do a battery peq then your options are a bit more limited as the packs get taller with more mah, at which point whatever you can double up in it that will still fit.

Most builds with that kind ratio and motor configuration I've read about all use external batteries.. it's just the easiest way to wire it and not worry about cramming the pack somewhere.

The gun I'm building will be running an external 7.4 with a 4600mah hardcase pack.. it'll pretty much be the size of a m4 mag.

Your build is not a stock replacement build or a slight upgrade... this is a super high performance gun. Properly powered with 11.1v lipo and 10:1s you're looking at RoFs over 45 rps, possibly into the mid 50s.

I personally would not field such a gun without a computerized fet to bring down auto rate of fire, even if you only use semi. DSGs in that RoF range only shoot 300-350fps unless you like a lot of maintenance or replacing gearbox shells.. you're shooting closer to 400 with a full stroke in the high 40rps.

[Flarebrass]

Ok so I put the 14:09's back in, close everything up, fit is great and everything is in place. Pull the trigger and nothing. Wont connect the circuit or anything, motor wont turn, battery isn't even getting warm. I changed absolutely nothing except the gears. ***STRESS***. Any ideas as I am now completely fresh out of ideas.

Flarebrass

[pestobanana]

How are you testing shimming?
Are you testing with all the gearbox screws in?
Have you tried adjusting motor height?
Did you check your contacts and connectors?

Upload a video.

Batteries should not be the issue. I'm pulliing a M100 level spring on 13:1 gears using a buffer tube lipo no problem.