systema vs guarder clear: hop up

[Amos]

.... 42 feet is nothing...

That's barely enough space for the hop-up to even begin working..

Try doing the same test out-doors at 100 feet, I be you wont get anywhere near proportional results (3cm X 3.2cm group)

[StrikeFreedom]

O and in the video don't have someone hiding near the target shooting at it while you are 200ft away.

[Skladfin]

you win champs, im a phony.

[Crunchmeister]

Not to put you down, Sladfin, but using my KSC G17, I can consistently get the same results at about 25 feet, getting all my shots in a space about the size of a dime. Adding 15 feet to that for a rifle, particularly a sniper rifle, isn't really saying a lot. While it shows good consistency of the gun, it really doesn't demonstrate what the gun will do in a real application - a 100+ ft shot. And as Amos pointed out, 40 feet is nothing. The hopup effect doesn't even have time to kick in at that distance.

[m102404]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

you win champs, im a phony.

NO! You missed the (or perhaps just my) point completely.

I am not disputing your results (others may agree or dispute). But I am saying that your attitude that anyone who says they got good/great results a different way without photo/documentary/cosigned "proof" is full of hot air is really, really shitty and insulting. It's narrow minded and actually takes away from your "argument"/case that it's a good thing to wash your stuff.

No one disputed that having clean/dry BBs...and clean/dry rubber...won't lead to a cleaner barrel, and maybe tighter groups. (well, maybe CDN_Stalker who's always avocated putting a drop of silly oil in the hopup now and then...and an advocate of washing his heavy BBs in his favourite sock) I'd personally debate that it's not a practical step that I've found necessary to go through to get good/great/oh-jizz results...I'd also debate that it's not a good idea to put oil into the hopup or onto bbs in a mag to lube the rubber...I'm never going to wash my BBs, my wife thinks I'm nuts already.

That's cool though...three different opinions on two different things. That's what forums and this kind of stuff is for.

[Forever_kaos]

Okay curiosity has me...
How does one wash their BB's?

Rinse them in the sink with soap/just water?

[Schlyder]

I use a spaghetti strainer, dump them in, a squirt of dish soap, swirl around, repeat, and then rinse good. After shaking most of the remaining water out, dump them onto a clean dry towel on a table. And dry them off with a towel.

[Amos]

Brand new cotton sock with a single drop of "simple green MAX"

It's not harmful to ABS and PVC plastics (which are the main make-up of most BB's)

lol however.. don't try to wash bio BB's... Me thinks you'd end up with very poor results

Edit: Just for fun I think I'm gonna go take some 40 feet shots with my broken VSR-10 right now (Piston head O-ring has worn out so it's not getting proper compression and leading to all sorts of fucky results.

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by m102404

No one disputed that having clean/dry BBs...and clean/dry rubber...won't lead to a cleaner barrel, and maybe tighter groups. (well, maybe CDN_Stalker who's always avocated putting a drop of silly oil in the hopup now and then...and an advocate of washing his heavy BBs in his favourite sock)

Actually I don't ever oil my rifle hop up rubbers (ok, once in a while I'll use a drop of oil as a solvent when giving my barrel a good clean), but the oil in thhe hop up is for my AEGs, and other's guns since many seem to plug up once in a while inthe field. Mind you, it might be every 6 months I'll come across that, often it's a rental that's plugged due to a dry and dusty hop up rubber. But for my rifles, I never oil the rubber, and I mostly use washed BBs too, it does increase the effectiveness of the hop up, allowing you to use less hop up which means less obstruction into the barrel (and I use the Guarder Clear in my M24 as it is, had for many years even at 500fps, and would change it every 6 months or so, and anyone that knows me knows I shoot it a LOT, like 1000rds every six months.) For a year and a bit I did use the RH65 rubber with that odd infinity shaped bucking, forget the name. Still didn't give me what the Clears do, is why I went back to it earlier this year.

[Donster]

so SCS with guarder clear is a solid setup.

assuming i play often, i should get the rubber changed ever year or so? or are promy rubbers more durable?

[Amos]

32 feet, un-benched while sitting on a soft foam bed, only using my elbow and knee for stabilization with a PDI VSR-10 (Firefly hop, VC set /w worn piston head o-ring and missing loading seal O-ring off of the loading nozzle.)

I'm willing to bet these ranges weren't even far enough for my piston's failing seal to even effect the BB, I'm 90% certain that the grouping is all shooter error


Shooting position


Target


10 feet from bed to the door, 22 feet from door to target


Barrel veiw


Target (Scope wasn't set, so I made a "aim here" mark)




2" wide by 1" tall grouping un-rested after 10 shots

What does this all prove?

BASEMENT ACCURACY TESTS MEAN JACK SHIT WHEN IT COMES TO LONG RANGE APPLICATION.

[Donster]

dude you got a Real Sword SVD! it means sell me your VSR!

btw, i think the tests will only be valid if you try shooting the SVD as well.... you know, to compare results [/sarcasm]

[Amos]

I doubt you'd want to pay the price that I'd be willing to let it go at lol...

To be honest.. I doubt anyone would... so I'm keepin' it!

I screwed up my outer barrel though... That stupid little silencer is stuck on there.... I want to take it off so I can put a proper sized one on there lol

[CDN_Stalker]

Actually, indoor shooting for groups plays an important role in long range applications, because if you can only get a 2" group at 30ft, the old Japanese proverb 'small things become big things'; a 1/2" group at 30ft will have a better chance of being more accurate and consistant at 100ft than one that shoots 2" at 30ft. See where I'm going? I'm not saying that a gun that shoots 1/2" groups at 30ft is able to do consistant head shot groups at 200ft at all, I know that's bs because of two things: 1/ The unstable lightweight ammo we use; and 2/ the variable medium we shoot through.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by m102404

Sorry...maybe lunch has sucked all the blood out of my brain...but what the hell are you talking about in your second paragraph? What type of gun? Do you mean you switch a 1 piece metal hopup (what gun?) to a 2 piece for outdoors....how?

IMHO...I wouldn't sweat changing out the hopup rubber for indoor CQB...as long as your rubber isn't damaged and is at least putting on enough hopup to get the BB far enough out. CQB is CLOSE quarters battle...if you're sniping away all evening at 100+ft with a little MP5K, you should grab some buddies and move up.

Type What i meant to say is that if you have 2 pc hopup gun, then upgrading to 1 pc isnt a bad idea. English third language fail.