M14 clusterf**k

[Donster]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

You don't need to upgrade an already good airsoft gun. Whatever happened to "upgrade the player not the gun". Now yes there is a minimum standard that it should perform at before you can say "upgrade the player" but a stock TM vs a clone that you put $100-200 into will pretty much cost the same in the end and perform at around the same level and after that it's just a matter of upgrading the player.

no im saying that after he plays for a year or so, he will mostly likely want to upgrade his gun to compete with the other upgraded guns. these upgrades could potentially cost a lot

as for your point about buying a clone and upgrading it. i dont think that is necessarily a good point. you upgrade a clone to the same levels as the real deal, and the non-clone will outperform every time.

[Cushak]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

A friend just bought an AGM M14, the amount of money he is about to pour into this item to bring it up to his personal specs is actually over the cost of some of the used and upgraded items in the classifieds. However I suppose its all personal preference in what you like. He thought he would save some money getting an upgrade platform and tinkering with it. Till he discovered that he now wants to replace everything about it.

You're talking about me so I thought I'd clear some things up:

1) It's not an AGM, it's a CYMA. Only difference in my mind is the externals, on the CYMA they we actually adequate. And I got the CYMA at at a good sale price.

2) I always expected to spend a large sum of money on it over the long run, I never anticipated it being good 'out of the box'.

3) I already own many of the upgrade parts I'd require.

4) Because of the above fact, for the cost of a full internal swap out (remember, I found the externals to be adequate) the cost is equal to or still a little cheaper for a used TM; not including the money I would then spend upgrading the TM.

[TokyoSeven]

Im always talking about you, when am I never talking about you.
AGM-CYMA, turd-gold painted turd.

Way to get drunk last night and almost kill yourself on my deep freeze.

[DJBackfire]

Like everyone else is saying get the TM....I love mine to death!

[Ayashifx55]

Dont buy G&G M14 if you dont want to spend 200$ in mags. I know by experience. TM mags does not fit in G&G and CA m14's

[SHÖCK]

Ahh, that reminds me of my early days. I told myself I was only going to spend $350 on one AEG and that was it! That's all I was going to spend on this strange and ridiculously expensive thing called Airsoft. Nobody was going to convince me otherwise!

Then after I started actually playing with other people and realized my gun was crap, I blew another $200 trying to upgrade the internals. Of course, the gun was crap in the first place so all the internals were just a waste of money or didn't work or everything just broke.

I sold it all at a major loss and spent the right amount of money on good stuff that lasts, that has aftermarket parts, that works.

If you aren't going to spend more than $400 on an M14, don't buy an M14 if you intend to play seriously with it. If it's just for a wall hanger or skirmishes, fine, go for AGM. If you intend to field it, fielding an AGM or G&G M14 will just not be that much fun unless you like punishment. Your gun will be overly long, it will be overly heavy, and you won't have the range nor accuracy (nor the ability to upgrade to the desired range and accuracy) where you will be effective with it.

This is still your money and the choice is still yours though. People are simply speaking from experience because we have all have regrets and try to steer people the right way.

[Ragboy]

Originally Posted by SHÖCK

Ahh, that reminds me of my early days. I told myself I was only going to spend $350 on one AEG and that was it! That's all I was going to spend on this strange and ridiculously expensive thing called Airsoft. Nobody was going to convince me otherwise!

Then after I started actually playing with other people and realized my gun was crap, I blew another $200 trying to upgrade the internals. Of course, the gun was crap in the first place so all the internals were just a waste of money or didn't work or everything just broke.

I sold it all at a major loss and spent the right amount of money on good stuff that lasts, that has aftermarket parts, that works.

If you aren't going to spend more than $400 on an M14, don't buy an M14 if you intend to play seriously with it. If it's just for a wall hanger or skirmishes, fine, go for AGM. If you intend to field it, fielding an AGM or G&G M14 will just not be that much fun unless you like punishment. Your gun will be overly long, it will be overly heavy, and you won't have the range nor accuracy (nor the ability to upgrade to the desired range and accuracy) where you will be effective with it.

This is still your money and the choice is still yours though. People are simply speaking from experience because we have all have regrets and try to steer people the right way.

thank you, thats reply should almost be stickied...

i'll start from the beginning, I want Two things out of my gun ACCURACY and durability... EVERYTHING ELSE is optional... even look and originality. so if someone tells me that i can get the same accuracy and durability from an armalite as from a nicely upgraded M14, than hot damn you just made my day...

i want an m14 because it seems ( and to some of my research) that the longer barrel and V4 mechbox give it the two things i want out of my gun out of the box.

Now dont get me wrong i intend on upgrading to get a tight bore and better pistons and so on and so forth. but what i'm looking for is the gun that will give me ACCURACY and DURABILITY while having to change the least amount of parts.

SO feel free to reassure my little newb mind and tell me that it is possible to get a less costly make and model than the m14 and still get a DM RIFLE capability ( as in not having to buy an m4 and turn into a bloody spr 3000$ later)

[Strelok]

You're not going to get 'durability' out of a china clone m14.

China clone = durability? Lololol, No, not at all.

Theres a reason why everyone here is telling you to save up for the proper brand. TM is simply flawless in that regard. Leave the thing stock, slap in a tightbore and a good hopup and your gun will be singing.

[Rock 'N' Roll Outlaw]

If you want quality you better pay for it. The more you cheap out, the less happy you will be. This has been proven over and over and over again. We have already given you the answers you need. If you want to get the answers you want then talk to a mirror. I don't see why you still feel that you can get good quality, reliable performance from clones that are notorious for just the opposite.

Let me spell it out for you again just so its clear: clones have MUCH lower quality control thus resulting in minor to catastrophic failures, lower standards for tolerance of the parts they clone thus decreasing the chances of upgrades/replacement parts will even fit or do what their supposed to do.

Is there anything else that isn't clear?

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Ragboy

thank you, thats reply should almost be stickied...

i'll start from the beginning, I want Two things out of my gun ACCURACY and durability... EVERYTHING ELSE is optional... even look and originality. so if someone tells me that i can get the same accuracy and durability from an armalite as from a nicely upgraded M14, than hot damn you just made my day...

i want an m14 because it seems ( and to some of my research) that the longer barrel and V4 mechbox give it the two things i want out of my gun out of the box.

Now dont get me wrong i intend on upgrading to get a tight bore and better pistons and so on and so forth. but what i'm looking for is the gun that will give me ACCURACY and DURABILITY while having to change the least amount of parts.

SO feel free to reassure my little newb mind and tell me that it is possible to get a less costly make and model than the m14 and still get a DM RIFLE capability ( as in not having to buy an m4 and turn into a bloody spr 3000$ later)

Reliability and durability = TM M14,
TM M14's have shorter barrels than an M16, but a MUCH better hop-up system that makes them much more accurate and reliable shot to shot.

They also have V7 mechboxes, not V4.

Anything will be reliable and durable if you're willing to spend the money on it.

The less you spend, the less reliable it will be (This is all true to a point)

A BNIB, stock TM M14 firing at 300 FPS with quality ammo will out-shoot ALOT of upgraded clones.

Edit:

Not to mention gundoc fees... I can fully upgrade a TM gun in about 3/4ths the time it takes me to upgrade a clone... Tolerance issues make my head hurt.

[L473ncy]

In your case then don't get an M14.

If you want Accuracy and durability and don't care about any other aspect then I would highly suggest a more common platform. The AK or M16 will do you fine in those regards.

Get a decent base to start with (ie. a "name brand" such as TM, G&P, VFC, CA, etc.). After that, toss in a TBB (6.03mm is what is recommended instead of a 6.01mm IIRC) and a quality hop up unit and rubber (ie. Prometheus Neo Hop Up unit, and a Prometheus soft rubber) and you'll be laughing all the way.

[Ragboy]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

In your case then don't get an M14.

If you want Accuracy and durability and don't care about any other aspect then I would highly suggest a more common platform. The AK or M16 will do you fine in those regards.

Get a decent base to start with (ie. a "name brand" such as TM, G&P, VFC, CA, etc.). After that, toss in a TBB (6.03mm is what is recommended instead of a 6.01mm IIRC) and a quality hop up unit and rubber (ie. Prometheus Neo Hop Up unit, and a Prometheus soft rubber) and you'll be laughing all the way.

sounds good. Thanks

thats quite honestly what i wanted to hear

[L473ncy]

One thing that a lot of people don't realize is that barrel length and a TBB don't mean everything. They help but if the initial base platform is crap there's only so much you can do.

You can still have a TM Mk.23 or a Hi-Capa that's tuned properly be more accurate and out range a long barrelled rifle.

In addition if anything breaks, you have a plethora of aftermarket parts support (and they're cheaper to boot) since it's more common more companies will make stuff and they need to undercut other companies for those same parts. Whereas, if you have a less common rifle and not as many people make parts for it then good luck getting cheap parts, they'll probably price gouge you because they don't sell as many parts and have to somehow recover the costs of making parts for that specific rifle. It's like making a million of ___ part for a Honda Civic (smartish idea) vs. making a million of ___ part for a Ferrari or something (just a stupid idea cause I don't think that many people will ever have that part break on them and have to replace it, instead they'll probably make 10,000 of that part and because not many other shops make the same part they can price gouge you because there aren't many of that part available and it costs more to make a smaller run of products than it does to make a million of the same product).

Anyways, you don't/won't need to "upgrade" the M16 to an SPR if you don't want to, it's just externals that make up what you call it. Internals are what matter, you could have an SPR with just external upgrades shooting stock or the same M16 with internals upgraded and shooting more accurately and be more durable than the M16 converted to the SPR.

Anyways, I'll leave you to whatever you choose and just keep in mind that if you want a reliable and durable gun then start off with a good base. After that it's a matter of hop up chamber, rubber, and TBB to get consistency/accuracy. After that all you need to do is just upgrade the player.

[SHÖCK]

Originally Posted by Ragboy

thank you, thats reply should almost be stickied...

i'll start from the beginning, I want Two things out of my gun ACCURACY and durability... EVERYTHING ELSE is optional... even look and originality. so if someone tells me that i can get the same accuracy and durability from an armalite as from a nicely upgraded M14, than hot damn you just made my day...

i want an m14 because it seems ( and to some of my research) that the longer barrel and V4 mechbox give it the two things i want out of my gun out of the box.

Now dont get me wrong i intend on upgrading to get a tight bore and better pistons and so on and so forth. but what i'm looking for is the gun that will give me ACCURACY and DURABILITY while having to change the least amount of parts.

SO feel free to reassure my little newb mind and tell me that it is possible to get a less costly make and model than the m14 and still get a DM RIFLE capability ( as in not having to buy an m4 and turn into a bloody spr 3000$ later)

In airsoft, unless you get past 600mm long inner barrels and have a proper high quality hop up, matching nozzle, proper unported cylinder, etc. length doesn't matter! (that's what she said)

I have an Mp5 here that has more range and accuracy than my friend's TM M14 and it's about 1/5th the length and 25% of the weight and half the cost to build.

M14s are also hell to work on so unless you are experienced at gun work or know a gun doctor who is experienced with M14s, I do not recommend it. M14s are also heavy as hell.

If you buy that AGM, you'll have neither accuracy, nor durability (the AGM M14 body is strange plastic that feels like it's cheesy bakelite from the 60s).

If you are intent on being a DM, check with whatever group you are going to be playing with as to their DM/sniping rules. Some of them do not allow AR platforms (unless SPR) or guns that not permantely disabled from full-auto, etc.

[Ragboy]

Ya Wellington thing i was wondering, of i get i kwa m4, would i have to downgrad, seeing as how it's 400 fps stock.


I've been asking this question alot and ppl keep telling me different things. So you guys are saying that the gun you choose doesnt necessarily mean More accuracy, but it probably gives a higher potential for it... As in an mp5 isnt necessarily less acurate thanatos an m14 but the m14 has thé potential to become much more accurate ....