Prometheus galore- PROJECT COMPLETE (Sept 11, 2010)

[turok_t]

[Amos]

Your cylinder is backwards lol

[doc_pathfinders]

rofl, if i had a penny for every time....

nice build, very nice!

[turok_t]

oh shit!! I didnt even know that... thanks amos

It took me like 3 hours to shim, but yet, the failed to attend the orientation of the cylinder..

[Azathoth]

Make sure you break in your gear set before you run out and game it hard.

If you don't know how, and since you have to open it anyways.

1. Get yourself the weakest battery you have.
2. Take out the compression components out.
3. Ensure proper shimming.
4. Mount pistol grip to gearbox Ensuring proper Bevel to Pinion alignment.
5. Run the Gun for 45 seconds on and 30-45 seconds off (full auto). Repeat until 20 mins have elapsed.
6. Open and inspect, Re-shim as necessary.

I saw that you had a question about properly shimming helical gearsets here. The first time i shimmed a helical it took my 4-6 hours to get it right. I thought this was FAR too much effort so I devised a mathematical way to shim them and it happens that it only takes 15 mins to do it that way and you get better results. I can post the method if you still need help, it's easy to figure out but you need a set of digital calipers.

With those bearings you should be able to freely spin your gears 15-20 times in your gearbox. When you shim flats you want a little bit of play along the axles Left to Right side of the gearbox. But with helical you want almost no play at all or close to that. You do not want to over-shim and have them too tight. When you spin the gears they should make a nice whirrrrrr sound. When you spin you the gears you want to hold the gearbox in the way you would properly hold a gun. Repeat this and tilt the gearbox Left side down and spin the gears. Then again Right side down. The noise of the gears and the number of revolutions that you can spin the gears should be consistent, That is when you have properly shimmed a gearbox by 'feel'.

The break-in period is VERY important with high end setups. If you are custom building a gearbox from off the shelf components your posted setup is high end enough that you should be doing this. After I shimmed my first set of Helicals I ran the break-in. The .30 shims that I had used on the one side had ground themselves down to .23, the 0.10 had worn down to 0.5 and you could see material pealing off the shims. Once I added up the the amount of material lost on the shims it totaled about .23 on each gear which is a HUGE amount of play difference. The gears themselves lost .05-0.10 amount of material (Prometheus TRIPLE torque). You should be re-shimming your gearbox every two months or so depending on the amount of play and volume of fire you are putting out. When you are breaking in gears and the motor you are putting the equivalent of 10,000s of BB's through your drive train (gears are allowed to spin freely from the motor).

[Styrak]

LOL, backwards cylinder...

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Make sure you break in your gear set before you run out and game it hard.

If you don't know how, and since you have to open it anyways.

1. Get yourself the weakest battery you have.
2. Take out the compression components out.
3. Ensure proper shimming.
4. Mount pistol grip to gearbox Ensuring proper Bevel to Pinion alignment.
5. Run the Gun for 45 seconds on and 30-45 seconds off (full auto). Repeat until 20 mins have elapsed.
6. Open and inspect, Re-shim as necessary.

I saw that you had a question about properly shimming helical gearsets here. The first time i shimmed a helical it took my 4-6 hours to get it right. I thought this was FAR too much effort so I devised a mathematical way to shim them and it happens that it only takes 15 mins to do it that way and you get better results. I can post the method if you still need help, it's easy to figure out but you need a set of digital calipers.

With those bearings you should be able to freely spin your gears 15-20 times in your gearbox. When you shim flats you want a little bit of play along the axles Left to Right side of the gearbox. But with helical you want almost no play at all or close to that. You do not want to over-shim and have them too tight. When you spin the gears they should make a nice whirrrrrr sound. When you spin you the gears you want to hold the gearbox in the way you would properly hold a gun. Repeat this and tilt the gearbox Left side down and spin the gears. Then again Right side down. The noise of the gears and the number of revolutions that you can spin the gears should be consistent, That is when you have properly shimmed a gearbox by 'feel'.

The break-in period is VERY important with high end setups. If you are custom building a gearbox from off the shelf components your posted setup is high end enough that you should be doing this. After I shimmed my first set of Helicals I ran the break-in. The .30 shims that I had used on the one side had ground themselves down to .23, the 0.10 had worn down to 0.5 and you could see material pealing off the shims. Once I added up the the amount of material lost on the shims it totaled about .23 on each gear which is a HUGE amount of play difference. The gears themselves lost .05-0.10 amount of material (Prometheus TRIPLE torque). You should be re-shimming your gearbox every two months or so depending on the amount of play and volume of fire you are putting out. When you are breaking in gears and the motor you are putting the equivalent of 10,000s of BB's through your drive train (gears are allowed to spin freely from the motor).

Hey Azatooth, thanks for your detailed advice! Im probably going to reopen the gearbox and check everything again, since I have to reverse the cylinder and my safety isn't working. Besides that, I usually shim the spur, sector and than the bevel gear in that order, with .01mm increments. Initially, I free spin them in the gearbox to see if it spins smoothly. Then I close the gearbox and fasten the screws and free spin them with my finger (i lost alot of skin on my index finger already) tilting the gearbox in all positions. When I hear friction, or when i see that the spin is reduced at a certain position, then i would shim accordingly. I would do this procedure with each gear, and then with all 3, it took me quite some time. Sometimes I notice that if i shimmed it until there is MINIMAL play, the gears dont turn as much during free spin. However, when i shimmed it less (more side to side movements), it spins more freely. But if there is more side to side movements, this can reduce the contacts between the gears which may add certain pressure points on the gears.

So my question is this: I need to balance between free spin versus gear play.. Which one os more important?

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Do you even game your guns?

What's the point of emptying your bank account on Prom parts?

As a retailer you should know better than to look a gift horse in the mouth. Who cares, he's spending money on the sport!

You go Turok...

[turok_t]

[turok_t]

Hey guys, im having some trouble with my fire selector. For some reason it only fires full auto.. are the bottom pics correct?

SAFE


AUTO


SEMI

[Styrak]

Yes. There's no way you can screw that part up.

[turok_t]

So I found out why my safety aint working, now its just trying to figure out how to resolve this issue. The reason why my safety isnt working is because the trigger arm is pushed higher than the actual trigger like the picture below:




When this happens, it places alot of stress on my G&P fire selector plate, causing the most narrowest point to fracture, like this:



This actually happened to my Classic army fire selector plate as well a few years back. Im using a King Arms M4 steel fire selector on my lower receiver. My G&P fire selector plate glides VERY smoothly on the gearbox, its just that when its pushed all the way on safety (left side), alot of tension is built up and it starts to crack at the bridge point. Obviously im going to get a new selector plate, but i know im going to run into the same problem. I can either sand the left side of the arc of the selector plate so that it doesnt get pushed as much, but im not sure if this would help or how it will affect the SEMI and AUTO function. Any other ideas on how to fix this? Thanks

[yuhaoyang]

I do not know how to subscribe to threads so I typed subbed.
interested in build and outcome of it.

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by yuhaoyang

subbed.

what?

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by turok_t

So my question is this: I need to balance between free spin versus gear play.. Which one os more important?

This depends on which stage of the break in you are in. If it's tight and it's Pre-break in I would personally leave it and do the break in and see how tight things are. If it's post Break-in and it's a little lose I would let it go; again depending on how lose it is.

The biggest noise your gun should make is the sound of the piston head striking the cylinder head. And in the case of some oddball setups the sound of the spring vibrating after semi. I don't know what other people do to ensure proper distance between gears when they are shimming but if you where to place a 0.20 shim on your bevel gear it should cleanly pass underneath the sector and bevel. when you rotate the gears.

Also 1 thing I forgot to mention. Helical gears exert strain differently than flats. if you take your gears on your left side of the box only and rotate them freely by hand you will see them twist themselves off the bearing hold. Flats will just turn freely and not rock free from the bearing axle slot (imagine a top losing its momentum and starting to wobble off axis). I've found that when shimming helical you want to use the largest outer diameter shim you have available. It makes a noticeable difference in the noise department. I went digging on ASM when I discovered this and it's happens to be standard advice over there.

To answer your question on the other issue. I have seen many off spec safety levers (the arm that acts on your trigger to prevent trigger pulls) try another one. If the component is part of a complete gearbox you shouldn't be having the problem so check the install. Other major cause is the trigger. Many triggers just are not on spec either. This is REALLY bad on G&G cansoft guns. Also make sure that you have the arm that interacts with the trigger installed correctly. I cannot tell from the picture but you may have the arm upside down.

PS. It doesn't look like you have done it but you may want to consider smoothing the piston guide rails on the gearbox, and the tappet plate are as well.