Ban on "toy" guns in Toronto

[Redeemer]

normally i don't whore post like this, but i just have to say I think this law is just an excuse to encourage kids to play with less violent toys. Boys are violent and need violent toys, its like hey little boy exchange your Red Ryder carbon action BB gun for an easy bake oven why don't you. I don't klnow if i'm miss reading the whole thing, but all these soccer mom by laws bring to mind Kyle's mom from south park. what WHAT WHAT!!!!!!

[thePiRaTE!!]

Not sure what the fuss is about. Kids can't play with toy guns in public places... sounds like simple common sense to me. Todays use of handguns in crime makes the police a bit more weary of young people toting guns. This will help eliminate the amount of false alarms police will deal with, and close-calls they will have, and might even save some kids life. It doesn't affect airsoft as we know and enjoy it at all, nor does it stop kids from playing with toy guns in thier homes or yards.

Note to redeemer - or maybe its just to get young boys into Betty Crocker.

[nutboi]

i agree with the soccer moms. i also agee that imature pupils or take thier guns out way too often when they dont' need to . they do not realize that these guns can get you shot. youngins aswell as people that don't know any better think that these guns are just bb guns and yes they are but to the the general plublic, they are still guns. if i was a cop i'd shoot you first and ask questions later if you had a fully automatic rifle aimed at me. there are fields to use these guns so take them there and use them. you dont' take a real steel into your back yard and target practice there do you? i do uderstand the need to try ur new aeg or gbb out, just be wise about it. people these days worry way too much about what would happen to their kids *which is understandable* if they lose an eye or get shot by a real steal. there is so much gun violence out there now a days that the media preaches calling the cops for even just parking outside their house.


i preach take your gun out to an approved airsoft field to try them out. that way no worries are brought up and u can shoot all u like. i wouldn't want a cop coming to my house saying that people are worried because they looked in my window as they walked by ans saw me holding a few guns.

another point.......a buddy of mine sold his usp from mid bc to a person in kelowna. it was arranged to be shipped via xpress post. the rcmp scanned the package and held it. they since have returned it and said that most airmail packages are scanned now and guns aren't allow to be sent airmail. the safest and only way to send airsoft guns in bc is by ground and mark it pellet gun. this is new to me and i'm gonna try to find more info on this.

on a side note. i believe the government gun registery sux, what criminal would register thier illegal gun bought downtown for a couple hundred bucks.

[ThePUNISHER]

Originally Posted by Goldman

Could someone please show me a rational argument, with facts behind it, about why replicas should be prohib in any form?

sure thing buddy
oh look kid points gun at police even after being told to drop it
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1209866.shtml

heres about 43 more...although most from the states
http://www.irol.com/avc/Fact_Sheet_About_Toy_Guns.html

its is already illegal for the sale or transfer of airsoft guns and imitation firearms to someone under the age of 18...there is a certain letter from a Sol Gen. that I wont post here but it states this

[Lisa]

Frankly I believe taking away all the kids violent and aggressive toys makes it so you are setting society up with people that have pent up aggression. Most people can deal with it in constructive manners how ever you have the others that just never learned to cope and become a burdan on our society.

[Goldman]

Punisher,

Have you read many of the instaces on the 2nd page?

1. On January 2, 2003, in Brooklyn, New York, police shot and killed a 17-year-old, Allen Newsome, after he pulled a pellet gun on a detective dressed as a delivery man.

On March 31, 2000, in Brooklyn, New York, two teenagers, 19-year old Tysheen Bourne and 17-year old Andre Fields, were fatally shot by two undercover Narcotics detectives while brandishing toy handguns.

On November 10, 1999, in Monterey Park, California, a 13-year old boy was shot twice on his upper left arm by an undercover cop, because the boy had a toy gun resembling a real gun.

The majority of incidents listed on that fact sheet involve adults. And the ones that are pertinent to this argument don't have any information about circumstances surrounding the incident. Of the 42 incidents logged on that page, none occured in Canada, and a numer of them seemed pretty odd, which makes me wonder why exactly there aren't fuller explanations for each ones. eg:

In 1983, a 5-year old boy was shot and killed at his home, by an Orange County Police Officer because he was holding a toy gun.

That fact sheet is provided by a group who's purpose is to get rid of toy guns. When I say stats, I mean if someone who has paid for a subscrip to Stats Can, could dig up the stats for Police shootings involving toy or replica guns.

The incident of the boy in Florida has been discussed to death. The kid wanted to die, he intentionally suicided by cop.

Also, I am not saying we should be selling toy guns to minors, I'm specifically looking at how retarded it is to ban toy guns, which are often 1/3rd scale of real ones, so kids can hold the damn things, from being ban. Society is becoming so safe and sterile now that ANY kind of behaviour that isn't featured on Everybody Loves Raymond should be outlawed and prevented. Honestly I also see this as a step twoards bills like the birtish VCR bill, that if i'm not mistaken, makes certain kitchen knives illeagel.

[LUTNIT]

On the first page someone mentioned as a joke, a bylaw that outlaws swearing, well in Ottawa there is one, its a $50 fine to swear in public, I know people (mostly international students) who are trying to be charged for it so they can brag about it.

@Redeemer
I wanted an easy bake oven when I was a kid, but none of my relatives would get it for me because "it was for girls" (my grandma was more than willing to get my a lever action air rifle though)
Now I'm 19 and have l33t skills making cakes, cupcakes, and bread but also play airsoft, so its all good :-)

Watch the movie equilibrium if you havnt, that is most likely what polititians see as the ideal society (minus the military police everywhere) in my opinion. They want zero crime, zero unrest, zero everything except compliant citizens. Parents want perfect little kids for their perfect little world, or what they think the world is, try talking about AIDs in Africa, the thousands of people killed on the street in Detroit every year, and the fact that someone is shot to death every so many minutes somewhere in the world by an AK-47, mass government authorized killings in China that are covered up, or anything else bad that happens in the world and they will just ignore it, they dont want to know how bad the world is, they just want to surround themselves with what they want, nice happy smiling people that play friendly sports and drive nice fuel efficient cars, no fighting, no war, nothing.

If they wanted to be a beacon in the world to show what life can be, that would be different, but most of them just want to not know anything bad and live a happy-go-lucky life in pure utter peace. I know some people that dont watch international news because its too depressing and reminds them of how messed up the world is, and since many of these people are the ones in majority or the higher income brackets they often have more power than the rest of us so these stupid laws get passed, hell many polititians are the same happy-go-lucky people.

Oh, and an interesting thing about police, they say they dont want the police to accidentally shoot a kid whos wielding a capgun, my aunt and uncle are both police in an undisclosed large Canadian city and my aunt is afraid of the shotgun she is "forced" to use and doesnt know what kind of pistol she has past "smith and wesson" and "9mm." My uncle is a little more knowledgable but still is no where near expert, and from what I'm told there are many police like this. So sometimes the police cant tell the difference between an obvious toy and a real gun so there is a problem there too, I'm not saying its their fault, but at least they can be knowledgeable about what they are going to run into in the streets, my uncle completly freaked when I was a kid and he saw me with a 44 magnum scale replica capgun with a MASSIVE orange cap on the end (it nearly doubled the diameter of the barrel) but it took him nearly 5 seconds to clue in that it was a toy, someone who carries a gun around all the time shouldnt have taken nearly that long to clue in.

[boomer_1]

I just hear that 2 more townships have agreed to sign onto the bylaw, 1 being Bowmanville I didnt hear who the other is. And so it begins, mayor Pierce has got her first to mayors to join the bandwagon on the issue.

[ThePUNISHER]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

Oh, and an interesting thing about police, they say they dont want the police to accidentally shoot a kid whos wielding a capgun, my aunt and uncle are both police in an undisclosed large Canadian city and my aunt is afraid of the shotgun she is "forced" to use and doesnt know what kind of pistol she has past "smith and wesson" and "9mm." My uncle is a little more knowledgable but still is no where near expert, and from what I'm told there are many police like this. So sometimes the police cant tell the difference between an obvious toy and a real gun so there is a problem there too, I'm not saying its their fault, but at least they can be knowledgeable about what they are going to run into in the streets, my uncle completly freaked when I was a kid and he saw me with a 44 magnum scale replica capgun with a MASSIVE orange cap on the end (it nearly doubled the diameter of the barrel) but it took him nearly 5 seconds to clue in that it was a toy, someone who carries a gun around all the time shouldnt have taken nearly that long to clue in.

although more knowledge would be good for them to have it would not work...gang members will modify their guns in order to make the police second guess...i have read storys of police hesitating when seeing the orange tip (rightfully so) but dont be surprised because gang members have been painting the tips of their real guns in effect causing this hesitation and giving them the edge...there is also a gun company out there now that is producing guns purposly made to look like toys...all different colors too...pink, neon green, yellow

[thePiRaTE!!]

Originally Posted by Lisa

Frankly I believe taking away all the kids violent and aggressive toys makes it so you are setting society up with people that have pent up aggression. Most people can deal with it in constructive manners how ever you have the others that just never learned to cope and become a burdan on our society.

People read more into it than it is. You just can't carry replicas in public places if your under 18. Nothing changes really, this is virtually a non-issue.

[Psycho]

so +18 people can carry replicas in public? just wondering.. im not stupid enough to do it

[ppimppanda]

I'm pretty sure replicas are illegal for anyone.

[GraveTech]

Didn't even read the whole thread, did you?

[Dracheous]

LUTNIT, there are people trying to lift that law, and the "Safe Streets Act." So that panhendlers can't be touched by the police.



But I agree and dissagree with Lisa here. Yes you take away every outlet of aggression a kid has, its like corking a bottle rocket and sticking it in a paint shaker. But where do you draw the line on "toy guns". I mean I went into Toys R' Us the other day and was estactic to see a WHOLE row of Tonka trucks again. I've never seen them in such quantity in any store for quite some time now. But what I still do NOT see very much of are super soapers or nerf Guns. I've seen some Laser Tag set ups.

My question is why are we not getitng our kids these kinda toys anymore? I mean what REALLY happened to capguns and nerf guns and all those. They were FUN! lots of it too. But now the kid has to feel ganster and shoot a little metal ball or pellet out of a gun that HAS to look "Mother****ing" pimp!... -.- God I hate this kinda crap... anyway

A ban on Air guns, I'm cool with that, specially in public. Although I don't think they should ban kids at say a public firing range ((I know its still kinda considered private)) when his dad or older brother (over 18 or something) goes in to shoot targets.

And in the end, if you read any of these instances noted in the threads above "Child show because Officer saw a gun," Maybe it only took a second for the Officer to react. I mean they train officers to shoot cardboard cut outs, and bandguys always have guns on them! So he see's gun, doesn't think and just reacts like his training tells him, "Gun=bad=shoot him before he shoots you!" So, if banning public display of airguns and toy guns for kids, that just seems to be more a safety thing for the kid! I mean the officer is safe, he has his kevlar and uniform and glock or 9mm what ever issue. But the kid has, no armor, no brains, and a gun in hand, spells trouble to me.



So again its bascially back to the fine line that needs to be drawn here, what IS "safe" and what isn't "Safe!" If its not safe then we need to stop it, if its safe, then there is no problem.

[enoh]

One thing I'd like to point out about the whole accidental shooting by police offcier shit, is:

14. On August 23, 1998, Michael Jones, a 16-year old boy, was shot 17 times and critically wounded by two police officers in Brooklyn, New York while riding a bicycle because he had a water gun that looked like a 9mm MP5 submachine gun.

Did they need to shoot him 17 times? Like, is 17 shots really necessary? And what 16 year old let alone one from Brooklyn, can AFFORD a real MP5?!?! The problem with all these things is people just being stupid. Pointing toy guns at people, brandishing them, whatever, but also cops being too quick to shoot, and even quicker to shoot to kill. What ever happened to shooting someone to wound them? No, now it's about emptying a clip into someone THEN seeing if the gun was real. PLEEEEEAAASEEEEEE... Just ridiculous.

21. On December 26, 1997, a father and his two sons, ages twelve and fourteen, were shot several times and injured by their neighbor, while the two brothers were playing in their backyard with the paint ball gun that the younger brother had received as a Christmas present the day before.

WTF!!