Thanks Canadian Customs...

[frankiet]

Before I begin, and you get the wrong idea, I'd just like to commend you for taking action. I believe your medium (a letter to your MP) was appropriate and you did a decent job. However, I believe I should clear something up. Airsoft are not all replicas. Most stock guns are, especially TMs, but some CAs are borderline due to their muzzle velocity, and they are classified on a case by case basis.

Originally Posted by lordosborne

Airsoft guns and the sport in general are in a grey area at the moment. They are technically a replica firearm, but do not qualify as such because the velocity of the pellets is less than that of a deadly weapon (which is listed at 450 feet per second. airsoft guns usually operate at around 200-350 fps.).

Actually, incorrect. Because they fire under 407 fps (in Custom's eyes), not 450 fps, that is exacty WHY they are considered replicas. Although the muzzle velocity number was 'proven' (and I use that term loosely) by an RCMP test to be 335 fps.

If you have already sent the letter, well, it's too late to correct it. If you haven't sent it, please try to clarify.

I encourage everybody to pepper their MPs with letters, but pretty please, with sugar on top, do the fuckin research. You'll get a better response if you are knowlegeable on the topic.

Again, Lordosborne, I commend you for doing something about it.

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by thephenom

Trying to do something should deserve some credit, I agree with that, but you can't exactly appreciate it when the msg being conveyed isn't very clear nor very positive. It's like having a friend to take a look at your car while he knows a bit about cars but not yet mechanic level, you appreciate the effort, but once he starts screwing up your car, it's not that well received anymore.

We do need to do something, but we need to do something together rather than every single person on the forum bombarding different versions of pretty much the same letter to our MP or MPPs.

While I agree with you that doing something together would produce better ideas, I disagree with discouraging everybody to send letters. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. One letter, know matter how nicely done, will not have the same effect as thousands of letters. Sure, let the senior guys do their thing. But I think everybody has a part.

I've heard lots of members here ask those senior guys what they're doing, but in all reality, I don't think that their strategy should be discussed on a public forum that we KNOW is monitored by the people trying to destroy this hobby. That is the unfortunate part. Short of getting together in person, or on the phone, it is hard to co-ordinate a 'plan of attack'. This is why I encourage everybody to write to their MPs.

Personally, I'm not asking to change the Criminal Code. It won't happen. Our problem is that everybody considers airsoft to be trapped in this 'grey area'. THERE IS NO GREY AREA. We need, in writing, to know where the law stands. We need to know the guidelines on muzzle velocities. We need to be able to challenge the 'RCMP BB test'. All this requires information. Information that the RCMP and Customs are doing their best to avoid giving in writing. I'm 'encouraging' my MP to obtain this information. Then we have something we can work with.

[cndzn]

I agree that as a community something should be done, however I dont see a recognised governing body of National Airsoft clubs/team here in Canada.....yet. I would suggest that at least by starting a dialoge with a Fed MP as lordosborne has done its a start in the right direction. Maybe some of the details are not accurate.....so what. Do you really think straight off an MP is going to be bothered with specific details on each particular weapon??

Until we have a governing body that can speak for ALL of us and act on the behalf of ALL of us, what lordosborne has done is at least start something positive. Will the MP take notice??...who knows?...but at least some havent sat on their arse, talked the talked but arent prepared to walk the walk.

For a national governing body of airsofters here in Canada I will donate 100$ to start the fund. And for every Age Verification I do I will donate 10$. If ALL age verified members donated 10$ each, if may give us some funding to at least do this properly. I would also suggest if monies allow, someone is paid maybe even part time to look into this and act/open dialogue with those in the authority to screw our sport.

As some have said, we do need a united front, and that takes funding.

Whats next?

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by cndzn

I agree that as a community something should be done, however I dont see a recognised governing body of National Airsoft clubs/team here in Canada.....yet. I would suggest that at least by starting a dialoge with a Fed MP as lordosborne has done its a start in the right direction. Maybe some of the details are not accurate.....so what. Do you really think straight off an MP is going to be bothered with specific details on each particular weapon??

Until we have a governing body that can speak for ALL of us and act on the behalf of ALL of us, what lordosborne has done is at least start something positive. Will the MP take notice??...who knows?...but at least some havent sat on their arse, talked the talked but arent prepared to walk the walk.

For a national governing body of airsofters here in Canada I will donate 100$ to start the fund. And for every Age Verification I do I will donate 10$. If ALL age verified members donated 10$ each, if may give us some funding to at least do this properly. I would also suggest if monies allow, someone is paid maybe even part time to look into this and act/open dialogue with those in the authority to screw our sport.

As some have said, we do need a united front, and that takes funding.

Whats next?

I agree, we do need a united front. But we need to agree with our mission. Unfortunately, not everybody in airsoft has the same motive. Some want to play, some want to buy, some want to import, and some want to sell. Perhaps before placing our faith in some members, we should make sure they are fighting for what we all want.

[lordosborne]

Thanks for the feedback. I probably should have held off on sending the email so that it could be proofread like it is right now. That being said, i think the gist of my email is still valid. Inaccuracies in the minor details can always be corrected later, and comparisons to other sports like paintball or softair can be made at a later time or in a manner that cndzn suggested to me - in a meeting between my MP and the team he manages, SIR.

I think his idea is fantastic because it would bring out the "true believers" of the sport and show MP Savoie that we play by the rules and want everyone else to, as well. SIR can also put on a demonstration to show how the game is played and perhaps bringing out paintball or softair guns to illustrate the differences and similarities.

The reason why I mentioned that airsoft leaves welts etc is because there's no point in trying to sugar-coat what we do. Airsoft is fun, but it does come with a price and it can be painful and obviously, a little dangerous. that adds to the fun factor, as long as safety rules are set and abided by. airsoft is no more dangerous than paintball and arguably less painful (i've never played paintball so i wouldn't know), so we do have that going for us.

I'll be sure to mention the necessary corrected facts in my reply email. I will post her reply when it arrives.

[cndzn]

Ok....lets start a discussion on what the mission should be!! Then we should talk about where it will go from there. No one person will change anything, but as a combined effort, maybe something will change.
To the people that make the rules its all about politics. If we give you "a" can we expect "b" in return?

This is where a National Governing body would come into play. Properly funded the body would encompass ALL the aspects of where (we hope) airsoft will be in the future, from dealing with importation issues and safety issues, to dealing with the Federal government. Sure we all as airsoft players can add in our 2 cents worth, but unless someone is listening, and moreso someone with the authority to act/speak for all of us, then what has been said will go nowhere.

Maybe now is the time to have a governing body for ALL of airsoft in Canada.

[drakore244]

I agree we should have a discussion to find our goals, so ill get the ball rolling.

I personally want to see, not quite looser airsoft boarder laws, but a simplified way of getting ones across the boarder. If this means filling out a Canadian Customs paper, im fine with that, because lest face it, its not like you are ordering a new gun everyday.

There should also be far more standardized way of finding the speed of the guns, because all it takes is one person doing a cronograph wrong, and the gun is labeled illegal.

Also, you must be 18 or older to buy an airsoft gun(at least up here in Terrace, i dont know about you city folks), this is a very good rule because, while not all 18 year olds are responcible, most will obey the law and use proper safety gear when playing the game. Now im not foolish, i know that some people get the guns while being underaged, but at least this limits these people, because i know this can have bad endings, like a week ago a few teens from out of town started shooting at bistandards in my town, however this is the first time, and its could of easily been paintballs which would of done far more damage.

I find it unfair that airsoft is being black listed, because if u look at the stats, sorry to use paintball again, paintball is far more dangerous and there have been far more random shooting on the street from it.

I know i got a little sidetracked there, but the fact remains the same, we must work together to find a solution that is a fair and just one, so i ask all of you to voice your opinions of what we should do about the problem in question, because is you dont, you will be the silent masses and the crazy ass soccer moms will walk all over us until we have to airsoft or anything of the like for fun.

I would also like to say i could represent the North-west of B.C. should we make an "Airsoft Union".

Cheers

[lordosborne]

i got a boilerplate email today from MP Denise Savoie saying that her office did recieve my email but due to the volume of emails she might not be able to reply to each one, etc etc. I'll keep you all posted.

[prosauce]

Originally Posted by diamond_SEA

If noone has noticed, the parliament is open right now.... so please write to your members of Parliment, explain the situation.

I mean Steven Harper's office mailing address is on his website.... mail him (note that mailing is much more effective than emailing)

I think a broad approach should be taken: Letters to MP's, the PM and oppositions, and mostly, to the CBSA... Send Ottawa representitives to meet them in person! Any person who looks at this very website realizes that airsoft in Canada can be regulated effectively, it is possible to make it work

How about the mailing address to the President of CBSA?

Mr. Alain Jolicoeur
President of the CBSA
Ottawa ON K1A 0L8

Just to note: looks like CBSA has closed the grey area, its in their work code now under Airsoft
http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/E/pub/cm/d19-1...tml#P133_21776

Diamond_SEA brings up some interesting points. Now is the perfect time to take action. Here's my idea...

Let's pwn Steven Harper!

Allow me to elaborate. I vote that we organize a "mass-mailing", where we all send off our letters on the same day. That way they all arrive at relatively the same time, with at most a week of coherency.

Each of us would design a letter that lays out the issues, and explains how they aren't really issues at all - rather, products of the uneducated masses.

Once a letter is typed up, it doesn't take much effort to print it off a couple more times. That way our letters can be mailed to our MPs, the CBSA, and of course, our Prime Minister. I want that man's mailbox to be so full, that he will get on his knees, CRY, and BEG parliament to consider new legislation!

Like it or not, we airsofters are a minority group. The only way we'll ever get noticed is if we band together.

If enough of you agree that this is the best way of doing it, our next step is to get the word out... which I'm not really cut out for. I'm an ideas man, but I'll do my part. I vote we get it to the front of the page ASAP.

-Kevin

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by prosauce

Let's pwn Steven Harper!

-Kevin

Cause that would do us any good.

[drakore244]

Prosauce, i agree fully with your idea. i can have an other letter ready in about a day, so everyone must just talk and find a day that we will all send it is.

[walks]

I think the point of the whole matter is too say airsoft isnt a replica and that they are in fact airguns since the bigger issue seams that there is no propper clasification also some people are saying we need to get organized and bring up a case to defend our sport, but saying it and doing it are two verry different things its time consuming and costly to start a case and with broken ranks in our community allmost imposible. if you want to start a fight first you have to look at all the bad things that could happen without propper controll of certain items then you have to find a way to prevent them from happening....more to follow need to sleep

[drakore244]

Field_Gunner has a valid point, and my friends and i were haveing the exact same discussion. The Obvious danger of Airsoft is the eye protection issue, however, should everyone follow regs and wear impact safety glasses, that issue is almost closed with a simple solution like that, however there are a few dangers thats are possible, because there are people out there stupid or careless enough to do this. One danger is, say you are playing a game of save/hold the hostage, what happens if a younger player, or older it doesnt matter, decides to put the gun in said hostages mouth, to attempt to keep u away, and that airsoft gun miss fires and shoots down the hostages wind pipe. Now granted this is a absolute peak of stupidity and Murphy (Murphy's Law) playing games with us, but that matter of the fact is that is could happen.

There isn't really any way to protect against this except for playing safe and smart. Also i still stand by the fact that airsoft should be limited for purchase to 18 or older, im 15 so i know what im getting myself into, but in the long run it will be worth it, this may help to keep people away who havent had enough worldly knoledge knocked into them, so the said accident may be worked around.

-cheers

[frankiet]

Originally Posted by drakore244

One danger is, say you are playing a game of save/hold the hostage, what happens if a younger player, or older it doesnt matter, decides to put the gun in said hostages mouth, to attempt to keep u away, and that airsoft gun miss fires and shoots down the hostages wind pipe. Now granted this is a absolute peak of stupidity and Murphy (Murphy's Law) playing games with us, but that matter of the fact is that is could happen.

Anybody who plays a hostage game and would do something like this is the whole problem. The solution to this problem... these people should never hold any type of airsoft, or heaven forbid, real firearm.

I really have to wonder about you drakore, seeing that you brought an example like this up. Do you play? Have you actually seen something like this? Or has this come from your twisted little mind?

[drakore244]

I agree fully that these people are the problem, but the matter is that it could happen, no matter how remote the odds are. But we have to try to fight off this danger by removing the, shall we say, intellectually impaired players from playing.

Oh, and to answer your other question, i do play, even though it is not at a range, i live in a small town, we dont have one, however a few of my friends and i have some land we are making into a range, and i have never seen this happen, but i have seen some guns missfire, so yes this came from my mind, you dont want to know how, i am often afraid to venture into my mind myself. (keep the jokes to yourself)