Elitists -Newbies, please read

[knightoice]

Originally Posted by notom

If i were you i'd try to find a G&G Armament version instead of CAS. Yes they are harder to find as CAS has a near strangle hold on G&G but totally worth the effort. I bought a G&G cansoft as my second gun, I love it. You will probably need to change the hop up rubber though.

Problem is the immense cost, I want a MP5SD6 and along with all the shipping and tax, that would be $500 from Ken

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by knightoice

Problem is the immense cost, I want a MP5SD6 and along with all the shipping and tax, that would be $500 from Ken

If you would please bother yourself to get age-verified, you would find a full metal MP5SD6 for sale in the classifieds for as little as $275.

If you are on a budget, you don't need to be a sucker and pay retail.

Work smarter, not harder.

If you are not of age, don't worry about it. You shouldn't be buying one anyways.

[jareyes]

Well I'm glad you posted this, and I'm glad I read it all the way through.

[scurvythepirate]

Great Read, loved it.
It'll give advice to the new players, changing their minds about buying a crossdraw vest from your local Surplus Store for way more than its worth.

Again, great thread. Well Done

[Con Murder]

The funny part is that for me and many others, our mistakes were few because we read the stickies. I posted about hunting camo and was roasted with good cause. I never thought much of it except, shit I gotta think through what I'm saying here. Ya my friends are not military dudes playing army and it worked while we dicked around, but the guys I play with now wouldn't dig it ever.
So if the stickies got read we could really save some time and effort.

[Scarecrow]

The amount of money you spend on gear doesn't make you noobish or elitist. You can be an asshat with 10 years in this sport too.

I think like any community there are those who take the time to make intelligent contributions based on experiences that are reflected on and lessons taken away from. I've also known guys in the sport for several years who wouldn't know a life lesson if it bonked them on the head.

I think those who get accused of elitism have a strong opinion, and, at some point, see something that sets them off and they post something passionate about it and when they see someone with less experience being dismissive of that experience, the "I've spent $10,000 on gear" or "I've got $10,000 worth of guns", or "I've been playing airsoft before baby Jesus shat a diaper" comes up and the elitist card gets pulled. I've seen vets here come off like idiots and I've seen noobs post the most inane and dense comments.

Bottom line is you are who you are. I've been comfortable from day one as to who I am here and what I am about. If someone wants to label me, so be it, it doesn't change the facts as I see them. Similiarly I am respectful of other people's passions and experiences and am relatively slow to flame. I think if more people took that approach, you'd get less of the friction you see around here.

Although, believe me, since the noob tank and the additional moderators and the banning of some key idiots, things are a LOT nicer around here. The only downside is the vets that I know lurk here but no longer post. Thats a real loss.

[Blackthorne]

Newbs are, for the most part, annoyingly simpleminded and lazy.

When effort is counted in keystrokes, I have no time to waste on folks who are so obviously addicted to the "I WANT IT NOW AND CAN GET IT NOW" generational tit. IF you cannot spare the energy to type in the few extra letters required for a reasonable facsimile of English, and cannot wiggle your index finger to bring the search function into focus, I believe 100% that you should get fucking flamed for being a lazy retard.

I am elitist not because I have been in longer, or have spent more, but because next to you fucking newbs I cannot appear to be anything else.

Kal nailed it, but I don't give a fuck what the newbs think of me, so I'll just sit over here in leet corner with my super kit and watch the stupid questions based on lazyness and lack of intiative keep rolling in.

[Hooch]

Amen brother.

I find that there is more fun to be had on the field, then banging your head on a keyboard helping those who dont help themselves.

Jesus, or some other religious guy, said they help those who help themselves. I probably misquoted it, I wasnt there when they said it, I was at an airsoft game.

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

The amount of money you spend on gear doesn't make you noobish or elitist. You can be an asshat with 10 years in this sport too.

I think like any community there are those who take the time to make intelligent contributions based on experiences that are reflected on and lessons taken away from. I've also known guys in the sport for several years who wouldn't know a life lesson if it bonked them on the head.

I think those who get accused of elitism have a strong opinion, and, at some point, see something that sets them off and they post something passionate about it and when they see someone with less experience being dismissive of that experience, the "I've spent $10,000 on gear" or "I've got $10,000 worth of guns", or "I've been playing airsoft before baby Jesus shat a diaper" comes up and the elitist card gets pulled. I've seen vets here come off like idiots and I've seen noobs post the most inane and dense comments.

Bottom line is you are who you are. I've been comfortable from day one as to who I am here and what I am about. If someone wants to label me, so be it, it doesn't change the facts as I see them. Similiarly I am respectful of other people's passions and experiences and am relatively slow to flame. I think if more people took that approach, you'd get less of the friction you see around here.

Although, believe me, since the noob tank and the additional moderators and the banning of some key idiots, things are a LOT nicer around here. The only downside is the vets that I know lurk here but no longer post. Thats a real loss.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by m102404

Wow...I thought I wrote long posts...

OP: I do get where you're coming from...it's obvious that you put a lot of thought into your post...and I think the points are solid.

But who cares if someone thinks you're an elitist or not? Who cares if some anonymous new guy with a bug in their rear argues a point (wrong or right)? Who cares if some anonymous person shrugs off whatever advice is given to them?

It's not so much that I care if someone calls me an elitist, it's more that a thread will often progress like this:

-Newbie1 askes about cheap guns/cheap equipment/whatever
-They get the standard replies from ASC, some helpful, some not, but all basically saying cheap equipment is crap and isn't worth it.
-Newbie1 argues the point with the common arguments...vets disagree.. standard ASC thread follows.
-Newbie2 comes out of fucking nowhere, says to newbie1 that everyone else are being elitist pricks, suggests crap equipment or stupid unfounded advice, and for some unknown reason, newbie1 listens to newbie2 who's been on the board for 2 months instead of the vets, and hops on the "they're being elitist pricks" bandwagon.

Partially my objective with the post was to try and discourage newbie1 (who might otherwise be a reasonable individual) from listening to dumbass newbie2 when newbie2 starts dishing out completely usless advice.

As for who is an elitist, there really is a difference. Here's two examples:

"Everyone should have a PTW, because they're very, very nice guns."
"Everyone should have a PTW, because everything else is 100% complete crap and usless."

One of those is personal opinion based on experience, the other is complete bullshit and is illustrative of an elitist attitude. While PTWs are nice, there are plenty of excellent alternatives. I do get offended when I recommend a CA to a newbie over a Kraken and they throw me into the second catagory. Compared to a CA, a Kraken is crap... that's facts based on experience.

At the end of the day, if a newb doesn't want the advice, fine. But I'd rather try and convince them so that we actually end up with a good, quality player and member of the gaming community rather than a cheapass twat.

Edit: I didn't intentionally pick on the PTW crowed... just using it to illustrate a point. You could swap the PTW in the example with a Real Sword and the result would be the same.

[m102404]

Again...I get what you're saying...and I do see the point in the cases where newbie2 misinforms newbie1.

But...if either newbie1 or 2 discard the advice you (or anyone else) gives...who cares?

- they've been provided the information that they could have searched for
- it's been put plainly in front of them
- they've discarded it for whatever reasons

If they do that...they're not going to listen to you (anyone) anyways. You've done your duty...you've put out what help you can. Quite rudely put...Fuck 'em after that.

Why not let them be and suffer the good/bad consequences of their choices? If they buy their craptastic thingy and it breaks...that's probably going to be a more effective reinforcement of what not to buy than any number of posts that guys can throw at them. If it doesn't and they're happy with it...well that's not the end of the world either.

Anyways...to each their own. I suppose what I don't get is why it bothers you so much.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

For every one of the stupid gits who listen to other stupid gits and end up with crap guns...

there are about 6 new guys lurking.. listening... reading.. researching and getting involved and setting out on the right foot.

it's easy to paint all new players with the same brush.. but in my experience its not really the case.

To a degree... here on ASC the idiots are running the asylum ... but it is not representative of the community at large.

I bump into new players all the time who practically never post here.. but none the less glean most of their info from here.. winnowing the wheat from the chaffe. The typically end up well kitted and prepared ...

[AngelusNex]

one thing i find funny is how all sorts of noobs started using the term elitist. I have NEVER heard that word in my life up until Obama started running for president of the USA and the word elitist started getting throw all around the media and what not.... Just the newest "perfect fits for everything insult" that the noobs found, to replace "f*ck you, yah f*cking f*ckers"

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Calls me "Elitist" I know I'm doing it right.

I try very hard to be better than everyone else.. I rarely am .. but I still try. If I have people calling me "elitist" I know I'm getting there .. at least in the perceptions of some.

My idea of what is important and significant in this Hobby is likely different than many others. Its those differences that result in people feeling Inferior.. and labeling others "Elitist"

the opposite of "Elite" is average, mundane, typical .. I certainly don't want to be that....

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

there are about 6 new guys lurking.. listening... reading.. researching and getting involved and setting out on the right foot.

IMO, that's what noobs should do. There should be a forced period of at least a week (probably more) where a new user can read but can't post. And I'd still be all for locking down the noob tank so that noobs can start a thread, but only the OP and members who have been registered for over a certain amount of time should have the ability to post replies in the thread. That way, it would avoid issues of the blind leading the blind as it seems to happen so regularly.

Personally, I found this site in about July of 2007. I immediately recognized it as being a wealth of information. I read every sticky, and read everything that I could find of interest to me, and anything that I thought would be useful to know. I finally signed up for an account and started posting in November. By then, I already had a good foundation. I knew what was what and who was who (for the most part). I knew of the grey legal area of airsoft, I knew we couldn't import, etc.

Now I did post questions to stuff I didn't find answers for, and some were noob-ish questions. But I got some very friendly and helpful answers and was never flamed once. Why? Because I took the time to research, and when I did post a question, I made it apparent that I had searched before asking. That in itself goes a LONG way to avoid the usual hostility towards noobs. The only flaming I've ever received on this forum was at the hands of noobs who don't agree with my 'elitist' advice.

And it's ironic that I've been called an 'elitist' when I'm a big supporter of budget brands like JG and Echo 1. lol People's standards for elitism are pretty low, it seems.

[CARL]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne

Newbs are, for the most part, annoyingly simpleminded and lazy.

When effort is counted in keystrokes, I have no time to waste on folks who are so obviously addicted to the "I WANT IT NOW AND CAN GET IT NOW" generational tit. IF you cannot spare the energy to type in the few extra letters required for a reasonable facsimile of English, and cannot wiggle your index finger to bring the search function into focus, I believe 100% that you should get fucking flamed for being a lazy retard.

I am elitist not because I have been in longer, or have spent more, but because next to you fucking newbs I cannot appear to be anything else.

Kal nailed it, but I don't give a fuck what the newbs think of me, so I'll just sit over here in leet corner with my super kit and watch the stupid questions based on lazyness and lack of intiative keep rolling in.

+1
Couldn't agree more...