Flakers - Why not have a game feedback system?

[Janus]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

I've thought about building a game booking and player sign up system that hosts could then take attendence at and feedback so players got show ratings. Like many of my ideas, I never really followed it up (it would cost me money, I've no programming skillz). Brian and I were talking about it again at the FTF game this weekend. Flaking is at an all time high here now. Time to do something.

If players got a show rating, you could they set player caps and your show rating could be used when you sign up. For instance anyone with anything less than a 70% show rate isn't allowed to sign up, and, players would be given slots based on their show rate. So it would be possible for a player with a 90% show rate to displace a player with a lower show rate, even up to 24 hours before a game. That would make people care about their ratings - almost like an eBay rating system.

If someone has the programming skills, I'd be happy to design the concept and oversee its construction - I do software project management for a living.

I have a few friends of the HUGE FUCKING NERD variety. Want me to see if they're interested in this idea?

[TnT_13]

Alright, thank you to anyone who is trying to bring something constructive to this discussion.

BOOO to those of you who just take up space with words. If you've got nothing constructive to say, save everyone from having to waste time reading it.

The % of games attended is kind of what I was getting at. I like that idea a lot Scarecrow. Maybe add a # for games attended/no showed, it would give people an idea of how active a player is. Which kind of matters.

I'd seen the game hosting section, but hadn't looked into it. I suppose having your own personal black lists are a start.

Now i'm pretty much a noob myself, but I do everything I can to show up when I say I will. And I try and avoid the Tent situation, when I have been tent, it's due to things having to happen/relying on others to get me to a game...saying that, posting tent is lame and I agree with any hosts who request for people not to do it.

Too many people have a complete lack of consideration for others, which is the issue with flaking. Just figured there should be some way to keep those people accountable. Wouldn't know how to set it up myself though.

Basically friends of mine are looking to host more games next season, we put days of work into setting up the games, and it's damn annoying when people just fail to show up. Any host knows this. Any player who show's up to games where a ton of people are missing knows this.

Can anyone set this up, or is it info hosts will have to try and share with one another?

JANUS - I like where your head is at, YES please. (Other people are cool too)

[DarkAngel]

Im a ASPX Programmer, I can set it up and write the software, but it is a considerable amount of effort to make it user friendly. I would need to sit down with a few of the hosts and see what kind of information they want to store in a database. It is a fair amount of work and unless I have the backing of the Community's hosts (I dont mean financial), it wont really be worth my time. Last thing i want is to make a tool noone will use.

Lastly, Brian is right, even once the software is finished, the game hosts have to participate and use it. I can think of a hundred ways this system can be abused (Tampering with data/falsifying data etc) so there must be some sort of understanding of the system as well as some sort of legitimization process of who can be called a host etc.

Jay, Brian. Shoot me a pm if this interests you.

[HeadlessChicken]

I can see having problems with this, especially with someone with an erratic schedule like me. I sometimes find out last minute that I need to show for work or stay late. It doesn't happen often but it does and without prior warnings so would I get flaked for something like this or would that be at the game host's discretion? I'm not the most active player around but I try to make it if I can and not promise if there is a potential scheduling problem.

[arman]

Originally Posted by jimski

hahaha funny in som many diffrent ways eh jimmy???

[Barbie]

Ok i did not go through the 5 pages... But here, in Quebec, some host has started posting the names of the players who were not there, left early and all... Some go as far as not admitting them to their next game... No list, no rating, just well, your name stated out and the host will remember it... Just a hint, if its a repost, sorry, lol

[CARL]

Originally Posted by m102404

Pre-paying is pointless.

1. I...and probably several others...do no sweat $20-30. There's zero pressure to "BE THERE" from paying money up front.

2. Having a pocket full of money but no one to shoot is not going to fix your game when 30% of the people don't show. 70% of people are still going to be cheesed off and the game's off to a rocky start.

3. It's been proven that A LOT of players can't sort out what time to show up at a game...let alone be organized enough to commit to paying in advance for something. Hell, even if they're given a ride, loaned guns/gear...they still may not show.

The hosts all know the guys who say they'll be there and are there....and know that $10-20-30-50+ isn't the driving force for attendance or putting the car into drive on a rainy/cold game day.

Keep a list...enforce your list...differentiate between an easy going shoot-'em up vs. a tight run "mil-sim"/"theatrical" scenario. Both have their places...but be clear from the outset (not afterwards) and set up the proper expectations for both yourselves and the players.

Habitual flakers will find the doors closed to them...and will have to stick with the easygoing shoot-'em ups where it barely matters if the host shows, let alone how the teams are setup, who shows up/leaves when, etc... Those can be fun...but if they want a different type of event...they have to behave differently.

-1
I'm sorry but you're wrong!

It will work, just try it...

1.Private fields a must.
2. People may still show late, but they won't be willing to throw away there money for nothing.
3rd It's on a physcological level, you commit with funds you feel obligated to show.

[Duckman]

Originally Posted by HeadlessChicken

I can see having problems with this, especially with someone with an erratic schedule like me. I sometimes find out last minute that I need to show for work or stay late. It doesn't happen often but it does and without prior warnings so would I get flaked for something like this or would that be at the game host's discretion? I'm not the most active player around but I try to make it if I can and not promise if there is a potential scheduling problem.

probably not as long as it's made clear that there is that possibility of gettign screwed over by work. that's a legit reason if there is absolutely no way to avoid it.

the point of this thread...and correct me if i'm wrong....is the chronic no shows. people that sign up for a game but dont show up without pulling out properly or letting the host know by posting in game thread and pm specifics later.

i have no doubt that people can have legit reasons to not show up. work, wife, kids, death....real issues that just cant be avoided. though...again using this zombie game as the example....i highly doubt that 50% of the players signed up had some sort of unavoidable emergency on game day and couldnt post or pm this info.

know what you're getting into. if it's a hardcore sim than you can be sure that you're going to need the right clothing and that you're going to be taking orders. if the game is in the spring or fall than you can be pretty sure that it's gonna be pretty cool out and there's a good chance of wet.

waking up not "feeling" like it or being afraid of a fluffy white cloud in the sky on game day is no excuse to be inconsiderate to a GROUP of people that arent as soft as you are.

i've known peope that will show up while sick as a dog. or hosts feel like they were on death's bed the night before or the morning of and still show up. this was never about choosing between life's truly unavoidable emergencies and our hobby. it's about the pansies, the inconsiderate, the "i dont care about anyone but me" crowd. the " i think i MIGHT wanna go so i'll take up a prime spot until i dont feel like it and not tell anyone" people. the i'll play this game if nothing better comes along type of attitude.

[m102404]

Originally Posted by CARL

-1
I'm sorry but you're wrong.

It will work, just try it...

1.Private fields a must.
2. People may still show late, but they won't be willing to throw away there money for nothing.
3rd It's on a physcological level, you commit with funds you feel obligated to show.

No.
1. Private fields are private...they're for playing with a closed group. That's great right!?! But it dies a strangling death when you're not letting in new blood. What if FTF closed it's doors to everyone who had not already been there? Or Harms Way? or Soldier Gear or Jayne Finch's, etc.... If you were the new guy just starting out...where would you play that wasn't fuck-around speedball?

2. The guys that show late are just shy of being worse than the guys who don't show!!! Why the hell should everyone stand around waiting for else to show after kick-off time?!?! Why should that be tolerated if the expectations are set otherwise?

If a guy isn't motivated to get out of bed on a cold/rainy/early-morning game day....do you REALLY think $20 is going to matter to them when their alarm goes off? Is it REALLY going to make them stop drinking and go to bed earlier so they can make that game?

Now...if you had to make a deposit of say $100 to a game/event fund...and if you flaked irresponsibly you'd loose your deposit and have to repay to be allowed to the games again...well then, now you're talking.

But $20 to change such habitual problems...gimme a break.

3. That's true...if the amount of money outweighs the immediate easier route. If I'm sleepy, lazy, don't give a fuck about what you think...going to a game on a rainy/cold/early-morning just so I get some value for the $20 that's already out of my pocket....doesn't mean a whole hell of alot. If I was going to be out some substantial more money/access...then that risk would motivate me.


Example...If I offered you a free CA Crane Stock...BNIB...but you had to drop what you were doing right now...haul ass from where-ever you are and get here NOW....would you do it? If so, was it because it was free...or was it because you wanted the stock? If not...was it because it wasn't a good enough deal...or because you didn't want the stock?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now....I'll PAY you $20 to come take that stock...but same conditions. Is it for the money or want for the stock that you would or wouldn't do it? (hint...if it's for the $20...you have to learn to put more value in your time).

If someone really wants to do something...money is not a motivator.

[Duckman]

hey tys...either way i'll see you in 30 minutes!!!!! hahahhaha

[m102404]

That offer was for CARL (since he put up the argument)...but he's still on line and hasn't left yet...so he must not want it...

[Duckman]

you're such a tease

[CARL]

Originally Posted by m102404

No.
1. Private fields are private...they're for playing with a closed group. That's great right!?! But it dies a strangling death when you're not letting in new blood. What if FTF closed it's doors to everyone who had not already been there? Or Harms Way? or Soldier Gear or Jayne Finch's, etc.... If you were the new guy just starting out...where would you play that wasn't fuck-around speedball?

2. The guys that show late are just shy of being worse than the guys who don't show!!! Why the hell should everyone stand around waiting for else to show after kick-off time?!?! Why should that be tolerated if the expectations are set otherwise?

If a guy isn't motivated to get out of bed on a cold/rainy/early-morning game day....do you REALLY think $20 is going to matter to them when their alarm goes off? Is it REALLY going to make them stop drinking and go to bed earlier so they can make that game?

Now...if you had to make a deposit of say $100 to a game/event fund...and if you flaked irresponsibly you'd loose your deposit and have to repay to be allowed to the games again...well then, now you're talking.

But $20 to change such habitual problems...gimme a break.

3. That's true...if the amount of money outweighs the immediate easier route. If I'm sleepy, lazy, don't give a fuck about what you think...going to a game on a rainy/cold/early-morning just so I get some value for the $20 that's already out of my pocket....doesn't mean a whole hell of alot. If I was going to be out some substantial more money/access...then that risk would motivate me.

+1
Some "Airsofters" will see it this way,and behave this way, but most will step up on a more consistent level.

I'm not discounting your points, they do have weight & numbers will support your prognosis, but over all most people will fall under my conclusion.

Brian also mentioned it has worked in the past, and i have seen it work.

As for your answer on 1. Yes and no is my answer to that. By getting really good games going on Private owned fields, open to ASC, you will be able to get committed & motivated players out!

By implementing a good environment, game play will rise to higher standards and only grow better players on a milsim level. This will help bring Airsoft back to what it was in Ontario, also the economy improving would help to and fewer/removal of gun laws...lol.

[Scarecrow]

Guys, based on the design I've come up with there is no need for a blacklist. Also the occasional no-show if you go to enough games won't significantly penalize you, but chronics will become obvious.

I would keep the system restricted to attendance, that way, its totally objective. Missing a game because your pet giraffe died is still missing a commitment. Nobody is interested in why. Perhaps if you miss a lot of games because you have a lot of pet giraffes and there is an infection on the loose in your backyard pen, you should consider not committing to a game during the outbreak.

Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one.

YouTube - Giraffe In Quicksand.

[Duckman]

prepaying can have it's merits in terms of getting those truely willing to commit to the game however most of those will show up regardless of prepay or pay at the door. brian's idea of using that method for bigger more resource intensive games is great. it'd be a waste of time for most smaller games though.

the flaker list really can stay as a flaker list. who cares about personal bias. you dont show up to someone's game? you might as well spit in their face. it is personal. let the flakers shoot themselves in the foot. they'll either chnage their ways or get out of airsoft when they realize that they have thousands of dollars collecting dust or it's just used to shoot soup cans in the basement. either way is good as far as i'm concerned.

as far as rebuilding the community to feed a good sim like those 5 or more years ago? oh i doubt that'll happen unless you can convince most of the vets, seniors, crankies to come out of retirement. i dont think that'll happen without the influence of other vets, seniors or crankies at a word of mouth basis. this topic directly relates back to that as well. this passed weekend is the first time in my 10 years of play where there was a 50% no show. rediculous. i dont envy the amount of work that any host even thinking about running a large scale sim will have to go through with the current "talent" pool in this community.