Anyone still use standard mags?

[Danke]

Originally Posted by Dirty Deeds

That is the KEY right there folks.

Positioning, changing position, and random movements. I just love the guy who sprays-n-prays every 1.5 seconds as he leads with his head to shoot, same spot, same height, and same timing.

Yep, then you just shoot him like a gopher taking a look.

And just as an expansion, besides not standing on the five yard line with a bullet hose I also actively trying not to get shot. That doesn't mean shrugging hits, it means thinking about what I'm doing before I move.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Dirty Deeds

That is the KEY right there folks.

Positioning, changing position, and random movements. I just love the guy who sprays-n-prays every 1.5 seconds as he leads with his head to shoot, same spot, same height, and same timing.

Yup, and like I said, this is why I don't buy half the BS arguments about needing more ammo to effectively hit a target. Like I've stated several times in this thread.. if you're somewhere where your AEG isn't that effective, MOVE to where it IS effective. Then you won't NEED a crapload of BB's to hit your target.

I don't want to come across as saying everyone should use realcaps -I myself don't use them- but I think any player that feels they NEED to have more than 500 or 600 rounds on them really needs to rethink how they play.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Personally.. I think that the "milsim" mind set and the "spray and prey" mind set are not mutually exclusive.

It is fun and challenging from a military simulation standpoint to try to counter undisciplined poorly organized mobs of players with insane access to ammunition with controlled and disciplined tactics and precise fire control.

In the end of it all.. you play your game against their game

As long as everyone is acknowledging their hits.. the mix can make a good game as long as expectations are managed.

The issue is that this continues the "us VS them " of Vets against Noobs

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Personally.. I think that the "milsim" mind set and the "spray and prey" mind set are not mutually exclusive.

It is fun and challenging from a military simulation standpoint to try to counter undisciplined poorly organized mobs of players with insane access to ammunition with controlled and disciplined tactics and precise fire control.

In the end of it all.. you play your game against their game

As long as everyone is acknowledging their hits.. the mix can make a good game as long as expectations are managed.

The issue is that this continues the "us VS them " of Vets against Noobs

That's all fine Brian as long as you're playing on a team of said vets against a team of said n00bs. More often than not I find myself on a "team" with the spray and prayers.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

That's all fine Brian as long as you're playing on a team of said vets against a team of said n00bs. More often than not I find myself on a "team" with the spray and prayers.

All you need to do is pull a couple of other like minded guys out of the herd.. build a fireteam and run your game.

or hang back and watch the fight .. and put yourself into the fight where you can have the best effect.

no reason to to stop thinking just because you are surrounded by idiots

Also.. watch for how the sides are shaping up and make sure you have the right kit to run with the vets.. and place yourself at their disposal.

If you show up in jeans and a hoodie with mags tucked in your pocket you will be running with the noobs regardless of how much TI you got

I know lots of new players ( different than Noob) who showed up well kitted to their first games and less than a year latter are solid shooters running with the Vets and 100% accepted as peers..

Why ?.. they fit in.. are armed right.. dressed right .. and shut up and learn.

[kalnaren]

Fair enough.

[Zeonprime]

If the Vets vs. noobs is treated in a fun tongue in cheek manner it makes a great game

Hicaps, lows, mids, real...that is never the issue (I'm guilty of the odd hicap for my truely lazy days), it's been already said, it is the playing style. Ammo restrictions (Scarecrow's ears must be burning by this point) are great in a high level sim game, but for an afternoon or day of fun skirmishes they can detract. The key is to teaching the spray and players into learning the value of trigger control. So instead of bitching, take the lead and offer them help in making their game better (when you are stuck with them on your team at a game. You wont convert them all, but if some listen, awesome!).

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Gerkraz

I can confidently say that ALL the high-cap users I play with use them out of necessity. By this I mean, the high-cap came with their gun and they can't really afford to buy mids/lows. I don't see any problem with this since a lot of us were there at some point.

Three words: supply-driven reorientation.

Businesses (first and foremost, distributors) can have a huge impact on hicap use:
1. Never include a hicap with a gun unless it's all that's available (ex. MGs, the odd primarily-drum-mag model)
2. Always have way more locaps and midcaps available than hicaps
3. Reasonable locap and midcap MSRP, especially with the box sets
4. Appealing locap and midcap wholesale prices, as dealers will promote locaps and midcaps more if they find them more lucrative than hicaps
5. Aggressive MSRP for hicaps to make them less fiscally competitive to new buyers compared to buying locaps and midcaps

Assuming there are Canadian distributors that have always found hicap proliferation disconcerting, and have made it a personal mission to make the necessary changes. Completely hypothetically speaking, of course.

Combined with education and guidance, this should significantly decrease hicap use.

[Slade]

I don't see why ammo limits should be in place for skirmishes and they are already in place for all good milsims so what the problem? If I play a skirmish its to have fun and not need to worry about counting ammo or running out in the middle of a fun fight. That just really seems to take all the fun out of it, after all a skirmish is supposed to be just balls out action. They work great for milsim because you're supposed to be acting realistically, but thats a whole different type of game.

If spray and prayers using hicaps are really so bad (and generally they are) and your tactics and discipline are so good then you should have no problem taking them out so what the problem? If you get stuck on a team of them then use them as a distraction or cannon fodder. Its a skirmish anyways, is winning really that necessary?

[coach]

Originally Posted by Khaos

If spray and prayers using hicaps are really so bad (and generally they are) and your tactics and discipline are so good then you should have no problem taking them out so what the problem? If you get stuck on a team of them then use them as a distraction or cannon fodder. Its a skirmish anyways, is winning really that necessary?

group all the hicap users on the same squad. push them to the front line and if they don't go, tell them to hold a position which you let the other team push up and become the front line.

[Zeonprime]

Originally Posted by coachster

group all the hicap users on the same squad. push them to the front line and if they don't go, tell them to hold a position which you let the other team push up and become the front line.

Hahahaha...maybe toss the grenadiers in there as well

[Hairu]

I dont have my kit together yet, and wont till I get my tax return or first couple paychecks
but I intend to carry either low caps or midcaps set to 60-70 and probably just 6 of them on drop leg carriers plus one on the gun
I think highcaps are good for just using in at home for plinking around and I think that they can be fun in certain given scenarios, but I for one love the Idea of having to duck down and replace your mag every once in a while, thats one of the coolest parts of airsoft that Im excited about, you just dont get that kind of realizm with paintball

[coach]

well we could all play a game with high caps but I'd buy this if it was a 'high cap' only type of game.



I can see their faces already, "Hey no fair! We've got to wind our mags with our fingers. That's cheating!".

lol, yes this is blatant sarcasm!

[lt_poncho]

Originally Posted by Gerkraz

I can confidently say that ALL the high-cap users I play with use them out of necessity. By this I mean, the high-cap came with their gun and they can't really afford to buy mids/lows. I don't see any problem with this since a lot of us were there at some point.

As veterans in the community, it is our role to nudge high-cap users into moving down to to mids/lows.

Can't argue with this - lets face it - noobs will eventually become vets if they play that long.

Back in the day before dboards we would SHOW them, on the field, why this was the case. Understanding and absorption rate was really high.

Now they (new players) are getting all the advice BEFORE the theory - this whole distribution of concepts via a dboard is just backwards. The negative first response shouldn't be of any surprise.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by lt_poncho

Can't argue with this - lets face it - noobs will eventually become vets if they play that long.

Back in the day before dboards we would SHOW them, on the field, why this was the case. Understanding and absorption rate was really high.

Now they (new players) are getting all the advice BEFORE the theory - this whole distribution of concepts via a dboard is just backwards. The negative first response shouldn't be of any surprise.

And show them we did remember the good ol 10.8V monster Gary an I created ??