Retailers supporting the +18 rule

[nizfiz]

Dracheous, before you jump all over me, please look at the post above mine. I was just correcting what he said.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by nizfiz

Also, milsim is just that, a simulation, as in not the real thing, people won't die.

While I don't know of any deaths in airsoft I do know it is possible to die playing it. Granted it would be from something like falling or getting run over by a vehical, falling off a vehical, alergic reactions, the guns are the least dangerous part of airsofting, the props/structures can do you some damage.

[Janus]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

solution is to make these entire boards 18+. Then we stop having to argue with kids all day. If they screw up after that, nobody can blame ASC.

The upside of not having the entire board being 18+ is that we can possibly talk some sense into these kids who manage to get their hands on airsoft. I know it's often a long shot, but it's worth a try.

Then maybe I'll stop seeing those little green .12g's from CT all over the street on the way to the coffee shop in the morning. Looked to be the aftermath of a softair driveby in downtown Windsor. We know and I know that airsoft and soft-air are different, but I doubt soccer moms or the media are going to be prepared to make the distinction when something really bad eventually goes down. (Oh, and it will. Like all things, it's just a matter of time.)

[nizfiz]

Seems to me you would lose ALOT of new people in the sport if they EACH had to be age verified to join the forum. I don't think anyone would bother, the internet is an ideal place to get introduced to something. Very few people would just go out to a field knowing very little.

If they screw up after that, nobody can blame ASC.

Also, I don't think that'd be a great attitude. You'll definitely endear yourself with the public if you take a "It wasn't our fault" approach. [insert sarcasm here]

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by nizfiz

Seems to me you would lose ALOT of new people in the sport if they EACH had to be age verified to join the forum. I don't think anyone would bother, the internet is an ideal place to get introduced to something. Very few people would just go out to a field knowing very little.

Also, I don't think that'd be a great attitude. You'll definitely endear yourself with the public if you take a "It wasn't our fault" approach. [insert sarcasm here]

Believe it or not, this site is not the end all be all of Airsoft. I'd say 40% of actual PLAYERS, thats not to say chairsofters, don't even bother with this site due to its frequent issues of petty politics.

[nizfiz]

ya, I know. I've been talking to a couple on MSN and other forums. Once I get out to a game...sometime this month, I might find myself ditching this place.

seeing as it the central hub to airsoft in canada....with a fantastic classified section and more info then you could shake a bag of dead kittens at.
There are thousands of people here who all play by the rules and work with the community, but if you arnt one of those, then sure, you can ditch it.

though I have a feeling we'll see a thread "ohhh, what gun should i buy" or "i need upgrade help"

as much of a bitch as ASC can be, it is extremely useful.

but you keep inplying that are rules are the reason for people your age doing stupid things. Ha!

Seeing as your what? Ottawa. With 2 fields, both that I hit for almost every game. LZ is invite only and +18 enforced. An extremely well built field with a fantastic players group.
Foxden, a great field, but you dont play your cards right and you'll find yourself a backyard funboy. Foxtail takes age very seriously.

[MMMiles!]

Originally Posted by Goldman

Believe it or not, this site is not the end all be all of Airsoft. I'd say 40% of actual PLAYERS, thats not to say chairsofters, don't even bother with this site due to its frequent issues of petty politics.

Fun fact! 80% of all statistics are made up.

I think most of us do play. the rest are underagers or players that dont have time(or got to old) to play but continue to collect and perfect.

[Goldman]

I didn't say 60% of people on ASC don't play, I said at many games its not suprising to find almost half the players don't participate on ASC. They have their friends sign them up for games and such.

EDIT 2 - Sorry about that Yuxi, I seem to have temporarily lost my ability to read, and thought your comment to Nifiz was directed to me, my bad.

edit 1- Also, my comment isn't so much a shot at ASC, its just the truth. There are a lot of petty and pointless battles that take place here, and as such I know a number of players who just don't bother with the site at all.

true, but just because someone doesnt frequent ASC doesnt mean they arent a member of the ASC community. Lets face it, even those who dont post use the buy & sell sections.

[Goldman]

Droc,

I'm talking about people who just avoid the site completly. There are a good number of players who aren't on ASC at all.

This is more common in other provinces though, or even more remote areas of ontario. While there is an ASO, there isn't a Toronto/GTA specific site, and as such ASC sort of becoms the default for most of metropolitan Ontario. I wonder how much activity would change if there were more local clubs? In ontario at least.

[sarcastro]

Originally Posted by HonestJohn

Fun fact! 80% of all statistics are made up.

Well 72% of people can tell you that. :-D

[Fluffy]

Ok, first off I'm going to need to reiterate the fact that I really don't care if 'kids' play airsoft or not. I'm 21 so that part really doesn't matter to me! I'm not trying to argue with any of you or change anyone's mind about letting them play. (It's very apparent I couldn't if I tried)

Originally Posted by Droc

Clubs can turn away whoever they want.

Fair enough, but last time I checked wasn't this called prejudice? And please don't argue that the law says it's diferent because 50-100 years ago there were many laws that excluded women and many ethnic groups. It's still prejudiced!

Originally Posted by Droc

There is more to minors then just being underage and owning a gun, there is maturity and comfort levels...Mostly though, its the guns. The fact that they DO find ways to get guns, is a problem. We dont want guns in the hands of minors. Its simply not right. Its risky and its a bad image overall.

I agree that there are many problems with kids being immature and stupid, but as you said they DO find ways to get guns. There is not a thing you or I or any retailer can do about it. As much as we would like to. Personally I think it would be Ideal if it were possible to keep them all out of the hands of kids.

Originally Posted by Droc

Obiously, you havent been to many games yet. There is no guy behind the desk of the venue. Airsoft clubs are for the most part, played on private property. Most well-established fields are on someones back property. Most owners play. Its their land, plain and simple. They do care. And if you have a well-established players group who doesnt want minors, then typically its in the owners best intrest to keep his regulars happy.

And I'm really trying not to, but I can't help but take at least some offense to this. The place where we play here (for indoor) doubles as a lasertag place before 6:00pm so yes there is a "guy behind the desk". And for outdoor it's usually paintball places so once again there is a "guy behind the desk"

Originally Posted by Droc

But dude, you gotta check to see if things are rattling around properly in that melon of yours. Saying that its our fault that minors do stupid things because we dont let them on our fields....is simply retarded.

And as much as I tried earlier I have to take offense to this one. I'm going to take a quick off topic break to say that so far as I know I've tried to be quite respectful this entire time. I have a good sense of humour so I would normally be fine with this if it didn't feel a bit condescending. Anyways, back to the topic at hand. I said earlier that we may be 'indirectly' causing it. It's not really our fault per se however it may be the 'reason' that these kids go out and play with their friends in the park.

Originally Posted by Droc

So if I shoot a real-steel handgun at a gun club here in Ottawa, and I end up screwing the owners wife, he kicks me outta his shooting club, does that encourage me to act in an uninformed and stupid manner?

No, but there are still ways you can shoot your gun while following the laws, these kids get a choice. Put their guns away in the closet for the next few years, or break the law and go play in the park.

Originally Posted by Droc

We do everything we can to encourage proper behaviour. The rules are here. But if a minor doesnt like the rules and side-steps them, thats their fault. We didnt encouage that.

example:
If I tell nizfiz here not to play airsoft untill hes of-age, im not encouraging him "do it anyways" if he doesnt want to do what we recommend, and decides to go out and do it anyways, then thats his fault, not mine. Im not forcing him to act stupidly. saying its ok to act stupidly simple because he cant play at our field is retarded.

It's never ok to do stupid things and I know that no one here would ever want that, including myself. you are however forcing him into a choice! One that most kids will choose the option we don't want them to.

I want to get across here I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about letting kids play. Just please think about what effect that may have on whether or not a kid will find his own way of using his gun. A lot of us tend to turn a blind eye towards a kid after we tell him he can't play, or can't buy a gun. Yet we're the first to be up in arms when one of us reads an article about the police catching some kids playing in a park or something like that.

Even if we aren't part of the problem, so far we aren't part of the solution either.

[Fluffy]

adam is gay!!!!!