Need info about motors

[Doubleagent]

Can anyone tell me which is faster, or is there any difference between a high speed motor and a turbo motor?
I'm a high torque guy but want to try high speed for a change.

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Doubleagent

Can anyone tell me which is faster, or is there any difference between a high speed motor and a turbo motor?
I'm a high torque guy but want to try high speed for a change.

For a high rate of fire, get a high torque motor, high speed gears, a MOSFET, and 11.1V batteries.

If 32 to 40rps at 400fps isn't enough to float your boat, there's still more you can do, but it will all involve high torque neodymium motors.

[Rusty Lugnuts]

Hi it took a bit of effort but i tested the element hi speed motor versus the ICS turbo 3000 motor and everything else being equal the element was faster.

[Doubleagent]

So you're saying that high speed motors have high torque capabilities? Do you know of a brand that is not too expensive?

[L473ncy]

No. Torque and Speed are two opposing concepts.

Speed gives you more RPS at the expense of lowering the amount of torque that can be applied to the spring (eg. with a hi speed motor and standard gears you may only be able to realistically pull an M120 spring with ease). On the other side, with torque you get more power to pull the spring at the expense of lowering your max RPS, in this case with a torque motor and standard gears you may be able to pull for example an M150 spring but lose RPS.

For the record, I have a speed motor with helical torque gears and it's pulling an M120 with 9.6V batteries with relative ease.

Also, best motor would be JG blue if you can find one with the second IMO being the Guarder Infinite Torque.

[MaciekA]

In addition to L473ncy's recommendations, both of which I use and am happy with, here are some other good torque motors with neo magnets:

- SHS high torque (inexpensive!)
- Lonex A1 high torque
- Element high torque

[Doubleagent]

Thanks guys, so that means the turbo and max power motors are just another type of high speed motor.

[L473ncy]

No not even close.

Lets make up some numbers here (assume a standard gearset and 9.6V battery):

Speed motor: 16 BPS can pull M110 at most
"Standard" motor: 13 BPS can pull M120 at most
Torque motor: 9 BPS can pull M140 at most

Ask yourself what you want from your rifle and upgrade accordingly. Also if you haven't already, visit the Airsoft Gear store in Richmond. The staff there can probably explain better to you and are experts in their own rights.

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

No not even close.

Lets make up some numbers here (assume a standard gearset and 9.6V battery):

Speed motor: 16 BPS can pull M110 at most
"Standard" motor: 13 BPS can pull M120 at most
Torque motor: 9 BPS can pull M140 at most

Ask yourself what you want from your rifle and upgrade accordingly. Also if you haven't already, visit the Airsoft Gear store in Richmond. The staff there can probably explain better to you and are experts in their own rights.

There's also a whole group of neo motors whose speed variants that can pull springs M120 - M150, like the Lonex A3 series, and their torque variants are rated for even more. I think the TerminusX motors are also similar in their capabilities.

Disclaimer: haven't tried either one of those yet, but have read many accounts of those*combinations working.

[Stealth]

What's a "turbo" motor? Some kind of marketing jargon?

You can get a high speed setup with a high torque motor (think Lonex Red or Orange or TerminusX) if you use super high speed gears (10 or 13:1), even faster with Dual Sector Gear.

The latest airsoft motors is really challenging the way we think about motors. I don't even think about picking up a "high speed" motor nowadays.

[iKliiu]

The recommended motors for DSGs are torque motors. The Lonex motor is really good (red), extremely high torque with good speed.

[wind_comm]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

No not even close.

Lets make up some numbers here (assume a standard gearset and 9.6V battery):

Speed motor: 16 BPS can pull M110 at most
"Standard" motor: 13 BPS can pull M120 at most
Torque motor: 9 BPS can pull M140 at most

Ask yourself what you want from your rifle and upgrade accordingly. Also if you haven't already, visit the Airsoft Gear store in Richmond. The staff there can probably explain better to you and are experts in their own rights.

dunno bout you, but the SPR I just built for my buddy had around 20 bps on an m140 on 18:1's with a 9.6v large and a "torque" motor before I semi-locked it.

my personal rifle had 22 bps on 18:1's/9.6 large/m120/ferrous torque motor before I revamped it. it was going around 30+ bps with 13:1s/7.4v 15-25c lipo/neo torque before I accidentally shorted the motor *facedesk*

I was also down at ASG this summer and saw/heard one of those 440-fps import G36s on an 11.1v sound like an old smoker coughing at around 11-13 fps (I'd assume some seriously slow + badly shimmed gears)

but basically, to answer the OP, there's really no reason to buy a "speed" motor, unless it's a TerminusX (and even then, most of the guys who buy Merlins are a special brand of crazy), or you're tweaking your armatures because it's a neo can. (for the most part, modern torque motors are plenty fast enough for everybody)

[Doubleagent]

Whoa... no wonder I just stick to the basics. I now have a good idea about what I want for my set up.

One more question; if I get a set of high speed gears and motor do I have to subtract tooth from the piston and the sector gear for them to work?

[wind_comm]

Originally Posted by Doubleagent

Whoa... no wonder I just stick to the basics. I now have a good idea about what I want for my set up.

One more question; if I get a set of high speed gears and motor do I have to subtract tooth from the piston and the sector gear for them to work?

short stroking? there's no particular need to do so. if you're talking about AOE/second tooth removal, then yes, but that could be said about every gearbox.

[MaciekA]

Short stroking the sector, short stroking the piston, swiss cheesing your piston (and other lightening techniques like removing the ball bearings / spring washers on the piston head), using a lighter piston and piston head, and using a stronger spring...

These are all techniques that arise somewhere between and north of 30 to 40 rps (depending on your setup) to prevent pre-engagement (PE) at high cycle speeds. You're trying to ensure that your piston returns back to the front of your cylinder before your sector comes back for another swing at the bat.

There are guides out there on how to achieve this but honestly the best way to do high speed is to dive in and start destroying pistons, gears, etc, and asking a lot of questions.

I've found I've got a better understanding of the reasons behind certain techniques if I actually went and broke something as a result of not doing them first