What guns need improvement or don't exist?

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by Pollock

How do you plan to manufacture? It's not gonna be easy.

Captain obvious checks in once more

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by ancorp

Im sure an approximate value can be done using relative measuring. I used this picture: http://www.unidadepopular.org/ak-47.JPG

I measured off my screen approx 27cm length, and approx 4-4.5cm bolt carrier travel. The real steel AK is 87cm long, so the bolt travel is approximately 13-14.5cm, so yours is close enough

These measurements are by no means accurate, if you want to do this right, find someone with an AK, rack the bolt all the way back, and measure the distance!

Cheers,
Alex

The reason I came up with 13cm is because I noticed that the fire selector (on my airsoft ak47, that is - dtp metal body) protrudes a little bit into the carrier's path even when set on automatic. 13cm is as far back as the handle can travel without bumping into the selector.

[ancorp]

Hmm... after looking closely at some pics, youre right, on full auto, the bolt might touch the selector abit. Either way, 13cm sounds good to me!

Heres a very nice picture album that might come in handly if you are interested in making a proper replica. Although these are pics of various different AKs, it will give you the general idea of somethings.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4288324981

Oop, there we go: http://www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/...alashnikov.mpg

Look at that, the handle almost gets upto the selector bump, on some shots its upto a cm away, due to slight variations in gas pressure. I guess the bolt doesnt need to travel the entire distance to cycle reliably.

Can you make it eject realsteel shells while youre at it? And somehow fit 30 shells, 30 bbs, and a nice big gastank inside a 30round magazine? Just kiddin

Keep us updated!
Cheers!
Alex

[mcguyver]

I really hate to be blunt here, but talk is cheap man. Build it first and talk about it later.

There's only 2 types of people in this world. Those who talk and those who do.

Decide which one you are and go from there.

There's really no point wasting server space talking "bolt travel this" and "blowback system that" when all there is are some ideas in your head and some computer graphics.

No other company that I can recall has ever put this much effort into "talk" and built nothing.

Again, sorry to be blunt here, but just do. The talk can come later when you've impressed us all.

[ancorp]

Although you are quite right, most of the talk here was to understand what is wanted, so the design process can start. Im a beliver because I really REALLY want airsoft to go back to GBB, and for that we need more convenience than the classic external fed airsoft guns.

So far, I dont see any progress shown to us, but since you say you have the basic system worked out, there is a good chance this can come through, even though it didnt get far with previous "designers" here.

Either way, I hope this works out, and em willing to help!

Cheers!
Alex

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I really hate to be blunt here, but talk is cheap man. Build it first and talk about it later.

There's only 2 types of people in this world. Those who talk and those who do.

Decide which one you are and go from there.

There's really no point wasting server space talking "bolt travel this" and "blowback system that" when all there is are some ideas in your head and some computer graphics.

No other company that I can recall has ever put this much effort into "talk" and built nothing.

Again, sorry to be blunt here, but just do. The talk can come later when you've impressed us all.

...so you're suggesting that I start building without any idea what the finished product should be? :smack:

And by the way, I'm sitting next to a piece of sheet metal that I've been cutting to test my mechanism. I am not just talking. The store where I'm getting the tubes was closed today, and might be closed tomorrow (Labour Day). Hopefully I'll have all of my test materials on Tuesday.

[mcguyver]

Life is full of chances, ideas and opportunities.

I would really like this guy to prove me wrong. It benefits everyone.

However, I'm also a realist and don't believe for a second that the Japanese, Taiwanese or HK manufacturers, with access to unlimited labour, parts and engineering haven't looked at this idea. There are going to be very good reasons why this hasn't been persued.

Why would you believe that a Canadian, with no license to manufacture these things, no access to overseas R&D, parts, raw materials, cheap labour and expertise in building these things can ever even hope to pull it off. No Asian manufacturer is going to even give him the time of day, unless there is a financial benefit to them and 20 pieces of "X" part isn't going to cut it.

Nobody ever designs something like this, builds it and sells it without at least building a working and flawless prototype.

And most users of this forum are underage, students, $8/hr. warehouse clerks or the like and they WILL NOT fork over the kind of money it would cost to build this gun in Canada in numbers less than many thousands.

I mean, come on guys, let's be realists here.

So sukivan, prove me wrong. Build it.

Until then, this discussion is pointless and a complete waste of time.

It should be trashed at the earliest convenience.

[Vladthecossack]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

most users of this forum are underage, students, $8/hr. warehouse clerks or the like

Hey! Who you callin' $8/hr clerk!

[mcguyver]

Sure there will be some notable exceptions, but you use the classifieds on this forum and you'll see. Some guys have to sell everything to pay tuition, eat, rent, fix car, etc.

Hey there's nothing wrong with working for a living. Some just get less out of their time than others.

My point was to look at the market. Who can afford to buy what. Why do you think guns that sell for even $1000 as complete with lots of accessories end up being parted out? Because very few can come up with the $$$$. And how many out of those WILL pay for a new, untried design?

[Vladthecossack]

Oops. Should have used 2 smileys. I understood you, just popped my head in for a 'cute' little joke.

[ancorp]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

...It should be trashed at the earliest convenience.

I dont think so.

This is an interesting and informative thread IMO.

Cheers,
Alex

[sukivan]

Alright, we've got naysayers left and right.

Now here's a chance for dyed-in-the-wool fencesitters to become naysayers:

Who thinks I can build a reliable bolt carrier/bolt mechanism using only plumbing (tubes/caps/orings) and sheet metal?

[Daes]

Metal or plastic tubing? I made a plastic tubing one reinforce with metal but the grease I used for lubrication ate away at it. Also, any dirt in it streaked the plastic making a horrible seal. Please say metal tubing...

-Daes

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by Daes

Metal or plastic tubing? I made a plastic tubing one reinforce with metal but the grease I used for lubrication ate away at it. Also, any dirt in it streaked the plastic making a horrible seal. Please say metal tubing...

-Daes

brass and/or aluminum

[swatt13]

in sukivans defence mcguyver (although i completley agree with you). these guns are designed by "the worlds most intelligent nation" and if it was a better idea they would have already thought of it. now they may have thought of it, but we both know bean counters control the world. to get this system up and running would have costed a company x amount of money to have x amount of engineers design, develope, r&d draft to find it required hi grade parts and manufacturing process'. they could have shelved this very same idea because it when they plugged it into their cost coefficiant formula it wasnt going to bring company x and finally mr.x enough money in to justify such a process. what?

now, simple joe, can develope, design, r&d and produce a working prototype on his own time gradually (which sukivan is obviously doing - remeber the guy who MADE his own p2000!!) and albiet with out a civil engineers degree or masters in some sort of mechanical/ engineering trade nor a cnc machine/ shop (maybe you do have acess to such a thing, i dunno...) makes it hard to believe that we will be served with the holy grail (jeeze didnt you ever see the river below video by billy talent? the dude built an a-bomb in his basement... AN A-BOMB!!!) but ya... we can hope and pray and what not, again remember the guy who made his own p2000! some company had to have picked that up and are developing a less costly way to develop that with cheaper mass available parts and process'.

and then ya to add on your other post, the retail to cover your costs ratio could very well be too high to market, and then you may also run into the very same problem star, src, ca ran into with trying to break into a tm dominated market. 90% of all business' fail within 5 years, many within their first year.

ya if that didnt make sense sorry its 2 am, and i wanted to sound smart.