Event Attendance: No Shows and Bails, discussion.

[concept_8]

I agree whisper_kill that in person airsofters generally tend to be some of the friendliest ppl I meet.

But at the same time if "any" association were to start monopolising fields and games for members only games it could have the same effect as someone just comming out and saying "haha I'm a meber and you're not:P".

Not to say that this would be the case with what ppl are planning but it's just something that indy players might be thinking.

(agreed Lisa, if I have anything else to post on the association I'll do so in the appropriate thread)

On the attendance subject I can see chronic cancelers being black balled from games at least for an amount of time.
Chronic offenders being ppl without a slightly reasonable excuse for doing so over and over or never giving an appropriate notice when not showing up.
It might be tough to judge who might deserve a temporary game ban though.
But a pre payment idea might just be enough to stop it from happening anyways.
Maybe some hosts would choose to deal with it one way and others might choose another way to handle it.

I know I sure don't envy the game hosts for having to deal with such a complex problem on top of the hard work they do allready.

[Duckman]

for as long as this discussion can be had with opinions tossed back and forth..nothing can really be addressed outside of a community meeting/picnic/beerfest/whatever.

i for one am with those who would support an organization that can represent a more professional, venue/public friendly face. this community is made up of a HUUUUUUUUGE melting pot of professional skills ranging from burger flipping to law enforcement to marketing..and the list goes on. now...given that should these people be willing to volenteer time from busy personal schedules, how could this be a truely bad thing? like it or not our "underground" sport or hobbie as people might prefer will inevitably come to light with the soccer moms and anti-gun yuppies alike. if this proposed collective of members can be an organized and potentially influential representation of something that we all love and devote large amounts of resources to as opposed to a rag tag bunch of psychopathic combat junky wanabe's than why not try it? i like the idea of a potential "face" to the name Airsoft instead of the imagery of just a bb gun. i like the idea of having an organization with the skill resources availible to combat our lovely public media even more.

i would however like to see all that in writing or at least a collective development. almost a proposal if you will. i woulndt curse any one particular person to hold or host or prep such a meeting but i doubt that my attendance would be in question if someone did. and for what it's worth, i very much respect those that are willing to give up their time and effort to try this as well as those that would just sit back, collect and/or play casually.


oh...and as for the attendance issue. i vote for public flogging of the chronic inconsiderate sort of offenders. maybe an airsoft court system? *points at tax*..."you sir are charged with being 3 apples tall!"

[tax]

hahaha nice one, I am a short chinaman. But I do bring the Entertainment Value to the games =P

*sorry for the hi-jack*

[Janus]

Lengthy, Off-Topic For The Most Part

I have to play into the part of the antagonist on this one.

Being here in Windsor with our tiny little airsoft club, we are used to games with only 10-15 people playing. We're self-reliant for rules and regs (most of ours are rather similar to most of the ontario fields with some exceptions), have a chronometer on hand to verify gun safety, and manage ourselves quite well without any overseeing organization to report to. We count on a 15% no-show rate, and considering that our average turnout is very, VERY lucky to be over 14, it affects us hard if it's more than that.

You GTA, ON/QC guys have it lucky out there with a larger concentration of airsofters and airsoft friendly fields. We've barely got a little patch of land big enough to run around in circles on. (If only we could go over to the Detroit fields or they over here...) So, hosts...account for a last-minute cancellation rate, keep track of people who habitually do it and simply do not extend them any further invitations or require a deposit on confirmation. It's really that easy. Offenders will either learn or run out of places to play.

---this is where I go off-topic, skip if you want.---

Now, things being that simple, (1) what exactly would be the incentive to join the OASA or such? (2) Why was the idea even really brought up in this topic? (3) What could it do to improve attendance? (4) How could it effectively enforce safety? (5) Mostly, what is in it for me? Here's how I see it:

(1) If non-OASA members couldn't play at an OASA field, for example. That's a little close to, "If you don't agree with us, the terrorists win." So..none, really.

(2) ?? DEAR GOD I'M SORRY FOR PERPETUATING IT.

(3) As far as I see it, nothing (and likely less than) that individual hosts can't do.

(4) A province-wide registry of all airsoft guns and their chronometric readings? Gee, that'll help because NO ONE EVER UPGRADES AN AEG. Plus it's great to know that somewhere there will be a list with my airsoft stuff listed next to my name just waiting to fall into the hands of some law enforcement agency hell-bent on confiscating every airsoft gun in Canada. These are the things I think about, and I don't need to worry about that shit more than I have to... Oh, and certainly nothing a host and some reliable people couldn't do. The names of idiots, assholes, cheaters and dangerous people spread like wildfire between hosts. Didn't you see the episode of "OSTRACIZED LIKE THE BITCH YOU ARE" that featured Peter Kang?

(5) I don't know. If the organization could do something that I, as an airsofter, could benefit from, then I'd support it. I haven't seen what that is yet...but as we like to say...you don't get something for nothing. Show me what you got.

Of course, in an effort to keep this thread on-topic on the matter of attendance, I'll discuss this further in PM with anyone who cares to agree, disagree, call me a short-sighted assbandit or whatever.

Thanks, and I apologize for the hijacking and ranting. We now return you to your originally scheduled thread.

-J

[Scarecrow]

I am not sure what more I can do to dissuade people from thinking this is some kind of Wolfpack plot. In fact, at first I alienated some of my friends on my team who wanted Plantation to be a Wolfpack-only venue at first, but who later came to understand the OASA concept and now are 100% behind it and have been supportive of the concept.

My teamates deeply involve themselves in my endeavors because they are my friends and they are also my social circle. Wolfpack already has private venues to use for its events - there is no need within our team to yet obtain more 'home fields' we have all we need. We don't have the resources or the time to borg everything - and despite popular opinion, we don't really desire to either.

Am I milsim oriented? yes. But thats just me. The OASA doesn't dictate WHAT gets hosted or played at an OASA field. Themes are entirely a hosts perrogative. If you want to do a "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" game where one half dresses as Ompah Loompahs and the others as factory guards, you can do that. Your attendance will reflect the success or failure of the popularity of your hosting plan. Would I attend a game like that? No, not because I am being mean, but because its just not my version of airsoft.

Also, as said, OASA is run by an elected board. In fact, once it is set up and running, I plan on resigning from it and acting only in an advisory capacity. I cannot do Scouts Canada (I am a contact leader) and run my business as vice president of a medical software firm and meet my responsibilites within Wolfpack, and meet my responsibility as a father to three children - its all too much. OASA will NOT be run by me, it will be run by elected officials within the community. Its not a Wolfpack agenda item, BUT the OASA concept is promoted by Wolfpack because, in essence, its a GOOD idea, people can see that once the concept is understood. It doesn't favor any individual, or team, it doesn't favor any particular hosting idiology or theme, its simply a neutral structure. Despite what people may think, Wolfpack is not 'the dark side' and in fact we do have the good of the community in mind when it comes to issues that face us all. A lot of time we just differ in opinion on how it should be done.

Actually I am glad you brought that up Agit because you've said something others might be thinking but are afraid to voice. No, this isn't a milsim thing, nor is it a Wolfpack plot. Its about making airsoft work better for us and to better leverage all of our limited time for better results, more venues and a sustainable long term strategy that has a succession component to it.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by JanusDP

L(1) If non-OASA members couldn't play at an OASA field, for example. That's a little close to, "If you don't agree with us, the terrorists win." So..none, really.

Why would you do that? By definition, once you play one game at an OASA field, you become a member for a year. You've supported the OASA by attending an OASA organized, sponsored field where a percentage of the field fee goes to the OASA coffers to continue field development. To become a member, you simply play at an OASA field. There isn't any additional fee above that.

If you don't agree to abid by the safety rules or by the boundary rules or the chrony rules, then yes, I can say you would not be welcome at an OASA field. Aside from the confusion and disagreement over sniper velocities, I don't see your average player disagreeing with a set of rules the association puts together and voted on, as they will represent that majority view of how people want the game to be played and by what safety rules need to be abided by.

[Janus]

So...other than setting standards based on majority vote, what exactly does OASA do? And how is it going to be different than any player adhering to the guidelines that any host would set? Hosts are under no obligation to adhere to any doctrines or guidelines, seeing as they will likely add field specific rules and take away ones that probably don't apply or alter some that aren't feasible.

-J

[Phalanix]

And this is exactly what I'm trying to work on with a few other (experienced) players/hosts. To setup general guidelines/rules for Airsoft in Ontario and the differences in the different fields. Granted not all hosts have to abide by these guidelines, but it'll be there for anyone who wants a guideline when they host games. Items may include mercy rules, distance, max AEG fps, sniper upgrades, etc.

Perhaps what I'm thinking of is a bit different from Scarecrow's idea... ? I am trying to setup something (a website preferably, like other provincial airsoft sites) with some others that's Ontario based in regards to airsoft... so I guess it'll be more of an informational thing rather than an association...

Incidentally, I keep seeing people bring up some ludicrous idea about an AEG registry. Nobody on the OASA side of this discussion has tabled, or far as I'm aware even supports such an initiative. Drop it from the whole conversation, because it's a non-starter. We've had that discussion before, and it's never been a generally accepted strategy.

As an aside, I have NOTHING to do with the OASA at any organizational or leadership level - my sole involvement has been to assist Jay with repairs to field equipment. Of course I support the initiative, as it only makes sense to me.

The OASA is not an initiative of mine; by extension, it is not a Wolfpack initiative. I attend events at OASA venues as a Wolfpack member, because thus far the OASA has consistently hosted games at venues that are more to my personal liking.

[NewBie]

Originally Posted by JanusDP

So...other than setting standards based on majority vote, what exactly does OASA do? And how is it going to be different than any player adhering to the guidelines that any host would set? Hosts are under no obligation to adhere to any doctrines or guidelines, seeing as they will likely add field specific rules and take away ones that probably don't apply or alter some that aren't feasible.

-J

Go back and read. Its been said quiet a bit!

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

Incidentally, I keep seeing people bring up some ludicrous idea about an AEG registry. Nobody on the OASA side of this discussion has tabled, or far as I'm aware even supports such an initiative. Drop it from the whole conversation, because it's a non-starter. We've had that discussion before, and it's never been a generally accepted strategy.

I think the only think the OASA is concerned about is making sure the field limits are consistently observed and to somehow reduce chrony time. Plantation now has two chronies and for big games and have two OCs doing check-in and chronying to try and reduce lag time. Also having a 'camp whip' who runs around and gets people to bomb up and get shit done during lag time seems to work well, so that when you need to finally do the briefing, everyone is ready.

I am open to ideas on how to do this, but serializing and registering guns simply won't work for a whole ton of reasons, let alone just the stigma of the Canadian Gun Registry.

[ATREYU]

Scarecrow wrote:

Also having a 'camp whip' who runs around and gets people to bomb up and get shit done during lag time seems to work well

This has been tried and works well. He is normally referered to as the RSM - Regimental-Sgt-Major. Only purpose in life is as a disciplinarian!

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by ATREYU

Scarecrow wrote:

This has been tried and works well. He is normally referered to as the RSM - Regimental-Sgt-Major. Only purpose in life is as a disciplinarian!

... "the asshole" for short...

[Lisa]

I think we've come to a consensus that not showing to games is bad and bailing from a game is less bad but sometimes understandable. Deposits and black balls are one solution

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Lisa

...black balls are one solution

I agree, kicking bailers in the nuts is a good deterrent... I am sure I can get some volunteers for that duty... boots on or off?