WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by .Zo

I went ahead and bought the aip one, the km one could wear down an almost irreplaceable part so I couldn't have that. Kind of odd that the aip hammer uses a bearing rather than the traditional heart shaped piece, would you know why that is?

Maybe AIP thought that a rolling bearing guides smoother than the heart shaped roller? To be honest, I find the heart shape roller better, its more dynamic than the bearing.... However, you can always reduce the nub on the bbu so there is less resistance when it rubs on the bearing. Mind you though, if you take off the nub too much, your hammer wont cock (ie. be caught by the sear), as such, I suggest you use caution if you do sand off the nub.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by .Zo

I went ahead and bought the aip one, the km one could wear down an almost irreplaceable part so I couldn't have that. Kind of odd that the aip hammer uses a bearing rather than the traditional heart shaped piece, would you know why that is?

I can't say for sure why AIP have decided to go with the wheel style hammer bearing. I'm not part of their design team so can't speak for them.

But from an engineering perspective, it makes total sense to replicate the bearing found on the G17. I think that bearing is much more reliable and much more fluent than the bearing found on the G18c.

For starters, the bearing will roll along the BBU as opposed to gliding along. THink of it like a wheel VS a sled on pavement. Without the proper lubrication (like say, snow) the sled will not run smoothly. Whereas a wheel will work regardless. This same principle applies to the different style hammer bearings found in the two Marui Glock platforms.

The trouble with running with the wheel bearing is already pointed out by Turok_T. It has a harder time humping over the bump on the BBU (like a speed bump). This is where all the friction comes from. Unless you modify the BBU a bit to create that smooth cycle.

With the rotary G18c style, the bearing rotates around that hump, which will have less friction. But as it moves further into the slide's cycle, it will wear faster because of the contact friction (like the sled in the pavement).

THe second reason why it will be more reliable to implement the wheel bearing is to eliminate an impact point on the hammer itself. A lot of times, the bearing on the G18c will actually break with a hard kicking pistol. When you add the full auto function to the mix, it will only be a matter of time before the bearing breaks. This is often the case during the winter time with the pot metal bearing becomes frigid in the colder weather and becomes easier to break...

Here's what I'm talking about:



You can see that a corner has been sheared off and notice how out of position it is as it sits on the hammer. The bearing, at this point, just rotates. There's no longer a place for the nub on the hammer to stop the bearing from completely rotating. This will jam up the slide cycle because the other corners on the bearing will catch the BBU the wrong way. THe second thing is that when it breaks, there is nothing to keep it from springing out and dropping to the ground....

This why I sometimes order the KM Hammer set. Just to get that piece in steel so it won't self destruct. The stock one is made of pot metal.

The trouble with the AIP set is that the bearing is made too big, causing a lot of friction. THis is why Turok_T has to come up a guide to fit it properly. For me, I replaced the bearing to a smaller, custom made one. The set isn't really compatible with any of the 8mm and 9mm bearings made by...Action(?) (I think).

So just be prepared to do a bit of work when you get yours.

[turok_t]

Guide should be ready shortly Just a bit tired from doing all the gun doc work in my area for the GTA today

[.Zo]

Originally Posted by e-luder

I can't say for sure why AIP have decided to go with the wheel style hammer bearing. I'm not part of their design team so can't speak for them.

But from an engineering perspective, it makes total sense to replicate the bearing found on the G17. I think that bearing is much more reliable and much more fluent than the bearing found on the G18c.

For starters, the bearing will roll along the BBU as opposed to gliding along. THink of it like a wheel VS a sled on pavement. Without the proper lubrication (like say, snow) the sled will not run smoothly. Whereas a wheel will work regardless. This same principle applies to the different style hammer bearings found in the two Marui Glock platforms.

The trouble with running with the wheel bearing is already pointed out by Turok_T. It has a harder time humping over the bump on the BBU (like a speed bump). This is where all the friction comes from. Unless you modify the BBU a bit to create that smooth cycle.

With the rotary G18c style, the bearing rotates around that hump, which will have less friction. But as it moves further into the slide's cycle, it will wear faster because of the contact friction (like the sled in the pavement).

THe second reason why it will be more reliable to implement the wheel bearing is to eliminate an impact point on the hammer itself. A lot of times, the bearing on the G18c will actually break with a hard kicking pistol. When you add the full auto function to the mix, it will only be a matter of time before the bearing breaks. This is often the case during the winter time with the pot metal bearing becomes frigid in the colder weather and becomes easier to break...

Here's what I'm talking about:



You can see that a corner has been sheared off and notice how out of position it is as it sits on the hammer. The bearing, at this point, just rotates. There's no longer a place for the nub on the hammer to stop the bearing from completely rotating. This will jam up the slide cycle because the other corners on the bearing will catch the BBU the wrong way. THe second thing is that when it breaks, there is nothing to keep it from springing out and dropping to the ground....

This why I sometimes order the KM Hammer set. Just to get that piece in steel so it won't self destruct. The stock one is made of pot metal.

The trouble with the AIP set is that the bearing is made too big, causing a lot of friction. THis is why Turok_T has to come up a guide to fit it properly. For me, I replaced the bearing to a smaller, custom made one. The set isn't really compatible with any of the 8mm and 9mm bearings made by...Action(?) (I think).

So just be prepared to do a bit of work when you get yours.

I don't want to modify the BBU nub in case I ever need to get a standard designed hammer...

But at the same time I'm weary of having to go through alot of steps to get the bearing instead of heart-shaped hammer to work on the 18c ...

I would love to get the KM hammer because it fits perfectly(?) and will take little work to install vs the AIP hammer but if it wears down the sear then I'm really screwed.

[.Zo]

Figured I'd contribute something at least rather than harassing you guys

Enjoy these build pictures.

http://imgur.com/a/Tnoqd#0

[turok_t]

I have completed my guide on how to modify the AIP hammer set for Tokyo Marui G17 and how to make your Guarder G17 slide cycle smoothly like butter for your glock.

Here is and excerpt to my tutorial, if you are interested, you can click on the link below to read more..

"Welcome to Turok's tutorial on installing the AIP G17 Hammer set and Guarder G17 slides to your existing TM glock. I was inspired to post this tutorial following my experience with a PGC slide on my TM G18C. The PGC slide required minimal to no modifications and cycles like butter on my glock. However, Guarder slides (for TM glocks at least) don't exactly cycle as smooth out of the package due to slight variances in their dimensions. After witnessing how buttery smooth a PGC slide cycles, I HAD to find a way for my Guarder glock slides to cycle just as smooth. Why did I pick Guarder? Because they offer the most variety in TM glock slides compared to other manufacturers, and PGC didn't manufacture the ones I wanted. Hence, I developed this guide."

If you guys are interested, you can read the full tutorial here: http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...34#post1743334

[.Zo]

Turns out I've had an extra sear this whole time. along with the rest of the aip hammer parts set.. The first one, not the set with the actual hammer that I just ordered

Now I have to go through the hassle of returning this aip one IF they let me >.<

[Zita]

Hoping someone could help me with my problem My loading nozzles are breaking at the point where the (return spring?) sits.
The pistol in question is a TM G18C
Just installed a PGC Slide + Barrel, Guarder Enhanced loading nozzle, SA 150% Hammer Spring
After installing everything and dry firing to see if everything works, i noticed the nozzle was still in a forward position, not stuck in the hop up unit. Thinking I fucked up, I installed the stock nozzle and the same thing happened after the first shot.

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Zita

Hoping someone could help me with my problem My loading nozzles are breaking at the point where the (return spring?) sits.
The pistol in question is a TM G18C
Just installed a PGC Slide + Barrel, Guarder Enhanced loading nozzle, SA 150% Hammer Spring
After installing everything and dry firing to see if everything works, i noticed the nozzle was still in a forward position, not stuck in the hop up unit. Thinking I fucked up, I installed the stock nozzle and the same thing happened after the first shot.

I can help I if u like, I've got the same setup as u and just live a bit south of u. I need to take a look at it to diagnose the issue

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by Zita

Hoping someone could help me with my problem My loading nozzles are breaking at the point where the (return spring?) sits.
The pistol in question is a TM G18C
Just installed a PGC Slide + Barrel, Guarder Enhanced loading nozzle, SA 150% Hammer Spring
After installing everything and dry firing to see if everything works, i noticed the nozzle was still in a forward position, not stuck in the hop up unit. Thinking I fucked up, I installed the stock nozzle and the same thing happened after the first shot.

This a fairly common area to break in the muzzle. The Glock 18c's loading muzzle only has two impact points against the blowback housing, as opposed to the G17 where it has three. THe first is the actual circumferance of the loading muzzle that hits the back of the piston head prong. the second is that nub.

That nub can only break in two ways:

the first is if the loading muzzle's return spring is too strong and slams the loading muzzle against the BBH too hard. This is a rarity that it will break like this since there is first impact point i mentioned above to cushion to blow.

the Second is if the return spring is not able to overcome the the force of the slide as it travels to the rear forcing the loading muzzle to remain stationary while all the other parts are moving around it. This action will slam that nub to the FRONT of the BBH rather than the back. At this point, the only thing that cushions the blow is the nub. This is why this part fails or breaks. It's the ONLY impact point during this time.

I would check to make sure that the muzzle return spring can function properly. That is, it is able to push the loading muzzle back to battery. Make sure that the plastic plunger does not go inside of the muzzle.

THe second thing I would check is to see if there is any contact friction between anything surrounding the loading muzzle. This can be from the magazine's gas route packing, the BBH, even the hop up unit.

You have Turok_T's support. I would advise you to take the gun to him for further diagnosis.

[GSK88]

Originally Posted by Zita

Hoping someone could help me with my problem My loading nozzles are breaking at the point where the (return spring?) sits.
The pistol in question is a TM G18C
Just installed a PGC Slide + Barrel, Guarder Enhanced loading nozzle, SA 150% Hammer Spring
After installing everything and dry firing to see if everything works, i noticed the nozzle was still in a forward position, not stuck in the hop up unit. Thinking I fucked up, I installed the stock nozzle and the same thing happened after the first shot.

Same issue, PGC barrel and slide, as well as PGC slide/Guarder barrel.

Stock nozzle took a lot longer to break though.

[turok_t]

For some reason this is also very common for WE g18c as well. I've seen around six if the same issue where the nub on the nozzle breaks.. Hmmm

The other reason I thinking is that when a magazine is inserted, it pushes up the air nozzle so that it is at an angle. This may prevent the air nozzle in efficiently retracting when the slide travels rearward. When the slide slams forward into battery, the bbu may be hitting the nub at an awkward angle causing the nub as well as adjacent areas on the nozzle to fracture. This may explain why the nub breaks off with a piece of nozzle. I would make sure that the nozzle return spring is installed properly (and not displaced when the gun is in action) and strong enough to return the nozzle to battery. Make sure that the coils on the nozzle return spring is symmetrical, any coils that are bent may indicate that the spring is getting caught by something, which will affect the spring's strength in returning the nozzle to battery.

[Zita]

Yeah, during installation It felt like return spring was a lot weaker compared to the the one in my hicapa. I'll try stretching the spring a bit once I get a new nozzle. If that still doesn't work then I'll bring my gun to you, turok_t. Hopefully it works nozzles aren't that cheap for a student if they keep breaking lol.

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Zita

Yeah, during installation It felt like return spring was a lot weaker compared to the the one in my hicapa. I'll try stretching the spring a bit once I get a new nozzle. If that still doesn't work then I'll bring my gun to you, turok_t. Hopefully it works nozzles aren't that cheap for a student if they keep breaking lol.

DON'T stretch the spring that's just going to make it worst. You need a proper nozzle return spring with uniform coils. Try getting a spring set from MAG or SA 150% nozzle spring

[Socks]

hello all, ive lurked this thread for a long time so i thought id say hi now that ive caught the modding bug and just got a tm g17 and guarder frame