Project Study For A New Airsoft Field Near Toronto

[wildcard]

There are lands in or around Toronto with existing building but the $700,000 price tag might be just a starting point there are some abandoned building in Toronto Harbour front (cherry street area) but those come with a price tag of over 1Million abandoned mill/factory included, the area is populated by movie studios and others. Brian's Initial quote is bang on for outer GTA area but low for GTA

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by wildcard

There are lands in or around Toronto with existing building but the $700,000 price tag might be just a starting point there are some abandoned building in Toronto Harbour front (cherry street area) but those come with a price tag of over 1Million abandoned mill/factory included, the area is populated by movie studios and others. Brian's Initial quote is bang on for outer GTA area but low for GTA

I'ts almost like I looked into it or something.....

[Chayce]

Instead of the Toronto, you could try Mississauga. Mississauga, a 1 hour drive from Toronto, doesn't have any airsoft field, arena, or shop. You will get practically no competition, plus the fees for running the business will be cheaper than Toronto.

One innovative idea regarding airsoft facilities would be the merger of airsoft with parkour. Although the effectiveness of using parkour for dodging is questionable, getting from point A to point B with it is not. Instead of an outdoor field, you should focus on an urban setting that offers a more varied game play. From my experience from First Person Shooter games, the most popular maps are not ones with a big area. Rather, it is the complexity of the map that wins the hearts of those players. Maps that have 3-4 levels, for example a basement, ground floor, 1st, and 2nd floor, with many stairs, elevators, ladders offer a level of variation in gameplay unprecedented by any "plain old field". More importantly, those who are familiar with parkour can better take advantage of the urban environment.

An outdoor field is not without its merit however. In an outdoor environment, good use of camouflage is an integral part for a teams success. Weather can change, turning a forested area into a mud field or a blizzard making advance difficult. Therefore, I propose an airsoft arena that combines the two, enabling situations that place an assault team attacking from the outside, and a defending team inside. If someone from assault wore a ghillie suit, it will now work against him in the building; if a person from the defending team ventures out into the fields, he might find his load-out inadequate for the environment. If indoors and outdoors were to be combined, the map wouldn't even have to be big. Undoubtedly, the size of one football field would suffice. In the end, its not how many acres the place is, its how you utilize it that's important.

By the way, living in Mississauga, I heard a landlord is planning on selling/renting a piece of his land. A small private school across the street from that field is on his property. But when the principal expressed her desires to move the school to another location, the landlord tried to persuade her by giving her part of the field for sports related activities as well. However, after a many years, nothing have been done with the field for reasons unknown to me. If you are seriously considering opening an airsoft arena in Mississauga, I strongly recommend you to look into it. There are many advantages to this particular field. Next to a mainly Chinese oriented shopping plaza that brings in thousands of people per week (the parking lot is packed on weekends), it is unquestionable that it is a location where most people in Mississauga will know of your business. Plus, since most Chinese are already familiar with airsoft (they call it "war game" in Southern China and is a popular recreation) most of them wouldn't mind spending their weekends in such as fashion.



p.s. I am new to this forum, and this is my first post. Although I have never scrimmaged before and my knowledge about airsoft being limited to what I read (and I do read a lot) and the guns that I have fired, my knowledge with the area is not. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask. If there was an airsoft arena in Mississauga already, I would've undoubtedly invested piles of money on airsoft already.

Cheers

[SniperSam]

Originally Posted by Chayce

p.s. I am new to this forum, and this is my first post. Although I have never scrimmaged before and my knowledge about airsoft being limited to what I read (and I do read a lot) and the guns that I have fired, my knowledge with the area is not. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask. If there was an airsoft arena in Mississauga already, I would've undoubtedly invested piles of money on airsoft already.

Cheers

Eesh, that'd be great place to have shop, not to sure about field. Since it being so close to that concrete jungle, I think you'd have some outcry from people that know nothing about the sport, but still would oppose it. It's annoying, but it happens. In Connecticut, there's an airsoft place called Ground Zero. The shop itself is off to the side of the city, maybe a 10 minute drive from downtown. However, it owns a field which is a 15 minute drive from it. It is very popular, and it is continuing to do good business since 2005

[L473ncy]

You'd need to convert that field for the proper zoning which I doubt you will get if you build it as an airsoft only field. You'll have to probably go airsoft and paintball.

As well there are many problems posed by being so close to other buildings and such. I know there is a field in North Van which is bordered by a community centre on one side and a set of train tracks on the other. There are apparently a lot of problems with paint "accidentally" hitting the trains as well as the wall of the community centre on the other side. Note there is mesh but it doesn't protect against everything.

Chayce: although your post about the location wasn't thought out very well I have to commend you on the rest of your post because that's a pretty good observation of what a good playing field/level is although you'd still need to worry about redoing the field and changing it up or it will get boring.

[Zeonprime]

Originally Posted by Chayce

Instead of the Toronto, you could try Mississauga. Mississauga, a 1 hour drive from Toronto, doesn't have any airsoft field, arena, or shop. You will get practically no competition, plus the fees for running the business will be cheaper than Toronto.

One innovative idea regarding airsoft facilities would be the merger of airsoft with parkour. Although the effectiveness of using parkour for dodging is questionable, getting from point A to point B with it is not. Instead of an outdoor field, you should focus on an urban setting that offers a more varied game play. From my experience from First Person Shooter games, the most popular maps are not ones with a big area. Rather, it is the complexity of the map that wins the hearts of those players. Maps that have 3-4 levels, for example a basement, ground floor, 1st, and 2nd floor, with many stairs, elevators, ladders offer a level of variation in gameplay unprecedented by any "plain old field". More importantly, those who are familiar with parkour can better take advantage of the urban environment.

An outdoor field is not without its merit however. In an outdoor environment, good use of camouflage is an integral part for a teams success. Weather can change, turning a forested area into a mud field or a blizzard making advance difficult. Therefore, I propose an airsoft arena that combines the two, enabling situations that place an assault team attacking from the outside, and a defending team inside. If someone from assault wore a ghillie suit, it will now work against him in the building; if a person from the defending team ventures out into the fields, he might find his load-out inadequate for the environment. If indoors and outdoors were to be combined, the map wouldn't even have to be big. Undoubtedly, the size of one football field would suffice. In the end, its not how many acres the place is, its how you utilize it that's important.

By the way, living in Mississauga, I heard a landlord is planning on selling/renting a piece of his land. A small private school across the street from that field is on his property. But when the principal expressed her desires to move the school to another location, the landlord tried to persuade her by giving her part of the field for sports related activities as well. However, after a many years, nothing have been done with the field for reasons unknown to me. If you are seriously considering opening an airsoft arena in Mississauga, I strongly recommend you to look into it. There are many advantages to this particular field. Next to a mainly Chinese oriented shopping plaza that brings in thousands of people per week (the parking lot is packed on weekends), it is unquestionable that it is a location where most people in Mississauga will know of your business. Plus, since most Chinese are already familiar with airsoft (they call it "war game" in Southern China and is a popular recreation) most of them wouldn't mind spending their weekends in such as fashion.



p.s. I am new to this forum, and this is my first post. Although I have never scrimmaged before and my knowledge about airsoft being limited to what I read (and I do read a lot) and the guns that I have fired, my knowledge with the area is not. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask. If there was an airsoft arena in Mississauga already, I would've undoubtedly invested piles of money on airsoft already.

Cheers

Originally Posted by SniperSam

Eesh, that'd be great place to have shop, not to sure about field. Since it being so close to that concrete jungle, I think you'd have some outcry from people that know nothing about the sport, but still would oppose it. It's annoying, but it happens. In Connecticut, there's an airsoft place called Ground Zero. The shop itself is off to the side of the city, maybe a 10 minute drive from downtown. However, it owns a field which is a 15 minute drive from it. It is very popular, and it is continuing to do good business since 2005

Originally Posted by L473ncy

You'd need to convert that field for the proper zoning which I doubt you will get if you build it as an airsoft only field. You'll have to probably go airsoft and paintball.

As well there are many problems posed by being so close to other buildings and such. I know there is a field in North Van which is bordered by a community centre on one side and a set of train tracks on the other. There are apparently a lot of problems with paint "accidentally" hitting the trains as well as the wall of the community centre on the other side. Note there is mesh but it doesn't protect against everything.

Chayce: although your post about the location wasn't thought out very well I have to commend you on the rest of your post because that's a pretty good observation of what a good playing field/level is although you'd still need to worry about redoing the field and changing it up or it will get boring.

NO. To that location, to getting rezoned and to use FPS as giving you any sort of idea of what the real world is like. Parkour would be discouraged just due to the insurance liabilities alone. *Edit* this post has been heavily cut down to avoid snarkiness. There are PB operations in Mississauga and Brampton.

[SKI]

That is a horrible area to even consider for Airsoft. It is right smack in the middle of a residential neighbourhood. You need to look at industrial or rural areas outside of the city.

[Durham Tag]

You can try it. If you just do airsoft you will go broke. I would find an owner and lease the building - at least 10,000 sq ft - 20,000 sq ft. You must add in paintball or laser tag to make it work. If you sell paint, it is a consumable, so that will help with income.

If you already own a building, you could make it, although just the taxes are going to be huge, even on a small building. Just taxes alone, on a $400,000 building are going to be likely $10,000 - $20,000 per year on the low end. That is $2,000 a month. Hydro and water will likely be close to $1,000 if you heat it. You need to do a serious cash flow statement to see what would happen. You would need a lot of cash to blow through at the beginning. You also need to always underestimate your numbers, because you will not likely get 100 people a month to start. You need massive dollars to advertise, because most of the cheap people on this board complain about anything over $30 for a field fee. Paintballers spend $100 a day all day for paintball. Go where the money is.

I looked at an old abandoned building in Toronto a few years ago for an indoor location. 25,000 sq ft. $5,000 a month. That is about the cheapest you will find. I would have made money there, but there are zoning issues and fire code issues that can shut you down. Good luck. There was an indoor paintball place for sale in Mississauga a couple years ago for around $400,000. It made about $500,000 a year and the owner probably took home around $60,000-$80,000. His lease was for $13,000 a month plus utilities and had about 15,000 sq ft if I remember. Minimum expenses probably around $20,000 per month.

[Daiviet]

Originally Posted by Chayce

Of course, you don't explicitly encourage parkour, but if an idiot decides to do a 360 jump off a wall onto the next building, hey, its his funeral =/

As the owner of a venue, its your responsibility to ensure safety. What kind attitude is "if he wants to do something dumb, let him die"?

Originally Posted by Chayce

reason I proposed that field is cause back in Hong Kong, there simply ARENT fields on the outskirts of the city. The whole city is a concrete jungle surrounded by ocean from all four sides, so people simply open up airsoft fields smack in the middle of the city. Nobody seems to care.

Hong Kong is a different country, they have different standards. you can't compare them with us.


In addition, that location in mississauga is not the wisest. The amount of teenagers in that area at any given time isn't a good thing. Sure its seperated by a railroad track, but you still have the commercial building right at the corner, and i'm sure people working there won't appreciate the windows getting shot at by stupid kids.



There's already an outdoor field at the border of mississauga/brampton. Paintball Nation has it, right in the powerade centre. Although their choice of venue isn't the smartest, since it's right next to the highway and every time i've passed it, i haven't seen any sort of fence or barrier.

[Zeonprime]

Originally Posted by Chayce

Of course, you don't explicitly encourage parkour, but if an idiot decides to do a 360 jump off a wall onto the next building, hey, its his funeral =/

Also, if you want a field that is on the edge of the city, I would look into it, I really don't mind.

reason I proposed that field is cause back in Hong Kong, there simply ARENT fields on the outskirts of the city. The whole city is a concrete jungle surrounded by ocean from all four sides, so people simply open up airsoft fields smack in the middle of the city. Nobody seems to care.

Originally Posted by Chayce

1. Parkour if done correctly with the proper training is very safe. Most normal people without the training will know that jumping off stairs might lead to injury. But if someone wants to jump off stairs anyways, there is no way to prevent him from doing so.

2. Hong Kong is a city, part of China. Not a country in of itself. They were colonized by the british until 1997, so their laws are more similar to the U.K. than China's. Canada was also part of U.K., and still is from a certain point of view. Therefore, comparing Canada to Hong Kong isn't exactly apples to oranges.

3. Getting windows shot at by stupid kids is only an excuse. You have as much of a chance of getting ur windows shot at by stupid kids as having a rock/baseball/puck thrown at it. With properly built arenas, there's also a slim chance for accidents to happen. What people are really worried about is the psychological stigma associated with Airsoft. OMGS THAT GUY IS USING A SCARY LOOKING GUN!!! WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREENNNNN!!!!????? Being so close to America, we as a nation have also started to fear everything that moves. When our airport security confiscates a bottle of water and safety razors, that's when people should realize something is wrong.

4. Last time I checked, Paintball nation doesn't do airsoft, sadly.

Originally Posted by Chayce

I was not arguing for the airsoft facility to open up in the residential area at that point of this thread. I was simply stating the overprotective mentality of North America in general. But if someone WERE to open up an airsoft facility near a residential area, it would be preferable to be concealed from public eye i.e. in a forested or walled area.

Ok... I'm not sure you are grasping what we are telling you.

You have also effectively threadjacked someone else's topic of discussion with this idiocy.

Please stay to the newbie tank and leave this person's thread alone.

Noob idiocy is only protected in that section, not anywhere else on ASC.

Learn more about what airsoft is in ontario and refrain from posting garbage. If you want to talk about Parkour I'm sure they have a great many blogs and forums dedicated to just that hobby. If you really must talk about it, then post it in off topic.

Lastly, player safety is a huge aspect of our community and your laissez faire attitude towards the safety of those playing airsoft around you makes me uncertain if I would want you playing at one of my games, assuming you are even old enough to do so.

*edit* oh and PBN will do airsoft with specific hosts. I should know I hosted the first airsoft game there before they even opened the doors to the paintballers.

[Daiviet]

Piece of advice Chayce, don't argue back. stfu, post less. You're not arguing with faceless nobodies here, by joining the airsoft community you're going to run into these people sooner or later, and guaranteed they have more influence over games than you do, so you may find yourself without a place to play.

[reaper416]

pbn. doesnt have enough space to play a respectable airsoft game.no way in hell would i play there.nobody cleans the field.fn sh%%$&^t hole.i spent to much monies on my kit.
to be covered in paintball crap goo.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by reaper416

pbn. doesnt have enough space to play a respectable airsoft game.no way in hell would i play there.nobody cleans the field.fn sh%%$&^t hole.i spent to much monies on my kit.
to be covered in paintball crap goo.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

You don't need much space to play a good game... we do it quite regularly in 4500 square feet

[Drake]

Thread cleaned, infractions handed out and lots more where they came from.


Stop threadjacking threads with useless crap and arguing (Chayce, I'm looking at you)

[TDH]

We have a business group that gets together a couple times a month and some of the topics that might help in making the decisions on this original idea might help.

1. Investing in passion for passion-sake is VERY dangerous.
2. ROI needs to be reviewed in your business model: time-frame, interest rates and carrying costs projected, etc.

The reality of the business model is that given some cooperative arrangement with present land owner(s), outside of the GTA, you might be able to be up and running without a ton of the initial overhead you are going to see in your initial proposal. I am talking about 20 to 40 minutes drive in a Northerly radius from the 400/401 corridor. There is land for lease in this radius, some with existing structures you might be able to work with. Real estate searching will be your biggest initial task, because if you can wrangle that, everything after that will sort of fall into place more reasonably. I did this exercise years ago with paintball (yeah I know: bad word, but the exercise was interesting). That business model relies heavily on the sale of balls and when this gets exchanged for pellets and equipment from a sales standpoint, I am not sure how it trades dollars with the model I am familiar with. I think you have to tie in the model with equipment sales...gear and guns, I'm thinking but someone else will have to chime in on the profit margins there. My guts says the only response you'll get around here will be the standard woe-is-me sales rhetoric, but I could be wrong. Someone please prove me wrong. I must have about a dozen serious ideas which are money leads as you go down this potential investment road, but they will all rely on your willingness to be creative about generating revenue streams. Anyone who is so unenlightened as to suggest that there is no money just hasn't got the creativity to be an entrepreneur. You CAN make money with this, but it all stems around some very simple business principals and if you don't stick to them, you fail. Simple! BUT...this CAN work, if your business brain is engaged and you have a healthy amount of creativity, energy AND...LUCK!!! Don't discount that! If you ever want to sit with us in our business brainstorming meetings, PM me and we can get you scheduled in.