Will something like Operation Lion Claws ever be possible in Canada?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by HackD

This isn't an urban facility.. but it is pretty much the largest acreage facility made available, in airsoft's most populous province of Ontario.

OP Triglav.

It's 500 acres, it's been posted to the games thread since June.. and yet it's struggling to attract 50 players at present.

Is it the price? Are Canadian players just too damn cheap?

Is it the travel location? Are Canadian players just too damn lazy to make the effort to get there, or rent a vehicle to get there?

Is it the season of the event? Are Canadian players, plainly put, just too damn Pussy..fair weather fighters only, if you will?

Does a large event require an urban component?

At 500 acres .. that'd comfortably fit 500 players .. 1 per acre.. think of it.

I suspect that Canadian players generally just aren't ready for OP Irene calibre games. Period. Not in the quantities and quality that are required.

The issue with Triglave is that the organizers are not known by the community, people won't take a chance with a new host till they have proven they can put on a solid game. It's a characteristic of the Ontario community that is tough to overcome. Start small and build is the way to do it.

Force recon has followed this path, and built a solid following for their events.

If Triglave, as small as it will be goes off well this year, it will build

[TJX]

Originally Posted by Kokanee

The "Urban Training Centre" at Petawawa is like five small buildings....

And is that the only Urban training centre in all of Canada?

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by TJX

And is that the only Urban training centre in all of Canada?

Maybe google might help.

[Gotrice23]

Originally Posted by TJX

And is that the only Urban training centre in all of Canada?

There's one in Gagetown... It's a couple of buildings but it's not very big either.

Just something special to note: JTF2 has done training at the PRZ Complex in Picton, ON. You can see it in this video:

JTF2 SPECIAL FORCES With CANSOFCOM - YouTube

[Mordarski J.A.]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

I haven't been, but Irene is at a bought and built facility I believe...What Canada does have, are ghost towns, but these can either be dangerous, or protected park sites...

IRENE occurs at the Fort Knox MOUT facility, known as Zussman KY. I agree with the idea of ghost towns as lots of provinces have them. The issue would be whether they are in fact 100% vacated, and then approaching the municipal government and the local constabulary to ensure everything is cleared and approved. Not an impossible plan, just not a very easy one either.

Originally Posted by Ricochet

...if I was going to do that much travelling for a game, I'd bother to go play somewhere more exotic....Another issue, is how some groups play a certain style, for instance military simulation, and would rather have 100 like minded players to game with, than 500 of whatever. Quality not quantity in essence...

I'm not sure I would consider Oklahoma "exotic", but it ties in with your point about like-minded players. When the idea of EAST WIND got suggested to myself and a few others, we fell in love with it. This was exactly the type/style of play we preferred. On average the event draws about 100 people (or less), but they are devoted people. The style of game play is one I have yet to see reproduced here in Canada, but that's not to say it can't or won't be.

Originally Posted by HackD

...OP Triglav...

Admittedly, this is the first I've heard of TRIGLAV. I don't normally look at the out-of-province games on ASC, so I guess I'm at fault for that one I am unable to attend as it is a time/money issue for me, but it does look interesting, so I'd definitely be interested in attending if it happens again in the future.

I would love to see something akin to any of the LC events happen here in Canada. I would love to see a decently-sized urban environment be used, but anyone who had the kind of cash needed to create such a field would have to have more than just the airsoft community to rely on for income. If it were possible to purchase something like a ghost town, slowly make repairs, and offer it to different agencies as a training facility, then it could be a possibility. But that's looking a *long* way into the future in a hypothetical situation.

Just a little food for thought....

[Aquamarine]

There's always Zulu1...

[Mordarski J.A.]

Yes, yes there is :P

Now if only I could commute from Manitoba to Alberta all the time LOL! I couldn't make the time to attend their premiere event, however now that it's been postponed a bit I might be able to get the time from work. Travelling to the site in BC will be a pain, but I trust it will be worth it.

[Ghost116]

Big problem in canada I find is the actual physical distance one would have to go to play. If your in North Dakota you could drive a day or less and be in Florida for a game. Where if your in Toronto and want to go to Thunder Bay (somewhat north ontario) it's 20hrs. U could drive 24 hrs north and not leave ontario. Love this country for that but if some of our friends in BBC have an awesome op planned there's no way I can afford to drive for 2 days there play a two days back.

[Danke]

Group of guys in one solid vehicle driving in shifts can get pretty far. Winnipeg to the West Coast in just under 24 hours.

[Ghost116]

No I agree totally. Just saying that if we wanted to go from one end of our country to another it's prob 3-4 days rather then one. And I doubt any of us can take a whole week off work for even a 3 day op

[hollywood...]

Originally Posted by Ghost116

And I doubt any of us can take a whole week off work for even a 3 day op

Getting a week off "family" to play Airsoft would be more of an issue

[Ghost116]

Haha only 23 no family yet lol just work. But yes 3 days off anything work fam or payin for the three days lol is tough

[Gato]

Originally Posted by HackD

I suspect that Canadian players generally just aren't ready for OP Irene calibre games. Period. Not in the quantities and quality that are required.

The majority of players are in no way ready for that caliber of a game, not that I'd call those games actual milsim. Engaging the enemy is something that isually happens briefly for the most part. "Milsims" are usually just constant skirmishes with a larger goal in mind than kill the other team.

The majority of previous attempts at milsim have left many with a bitter taste in their mouthes and the term "milsim" carries certain conotations of a scripted, one sided fight with stacked teams. The Nightfall games are the only ones I know of where NO one had any complaints about the over all game or game control. The big issue is that users here will bitch amongst friends and other players, but will not post about their dislike or voice it to those who need to hear it.....

I think part of the problem getting players for triglave is where I have an issue. Back when I could have commited, green was locked out. I'll stay home before I'll play tan. Now that its open, none of my kit is packed, I don't know where most of it is because I didn't go dig out things like my goretex socks earlier. I'm simply not prepared and I'm unwilling to do the "mad dash" to get it all ready there are other things happening in most peoples lives at this time of year. Brian M Is also very right in his reply.

The cost is reasonable. That said, when unemployed, with no source of income, its a hell of alot of money.

Originally Posted by Gotrice23

There's one in Gagetown... It's a couple of buildings but it's not very big either.

Just something special to note: JTF2 has done training at the PRZ Complex in Picton, ON. You can see it in this video:

JTF2 SPECIAL FORCES With CANSOFCOM - YouTube

That's not new information. Everyone should know that already. Who do people think blew all those holes through Walls?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

The whole tan vs green thing is really getting to be overdone.

And it causes static alliances between " the usual suspects" that run tan and those that run green.

This further polarizes the community.

Personally, I much prefer allowing people to wear what they want and make the distinction of sides a command decision.

Armbands are not as" paintball" as you may think. It's a time honored practice in theaters where the factions look the same " think Russian winter". When everyone is wearing whites the only way to distinguish your side was colored arm bands.

You may not need to go that far, but something as simple as a flash of a particular color applied to some agreed location on the body .. Most of us are festooned with. Velcro real estate, this solution to friend vs foe issues should not be that hard to solve without forcing people to wear bad camo.

[Gato]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

The whole tan vs green thing is really getting to be overdone.

And it causes static alliances between " the usual suspects" that run tan and those that run green.

This further polarizes the community.

Personally, I much prefer allowing people to wear what they want and make the distinction of sides a command decision.

Armbands are not as" paintball" as you may think. It's a time honored practice in theaters where the factions look the same " think Russian winter". When everyone is wearing whites the only way to distinguish your side was colored arm bands.

You may not need to go that far, but something as simple as a flash of a particular color applied to some agreed location on the body .. Most of us are festooned with. Velcro real estate, this solution to friend vs foe issues should not be that hard to solve without forcing people to wear bad camo.

This is actually a very good idea. It's the same reason, while armies wear their uniforms, they also wear other identifiers, like flags. Green is green, multiple nations now use Multicam, what differentiates them is that flag. While a flag isn't really practical for airsoft, the idea is still very valid Brian, and I like it.