Tm VSR-10 (Upgrades)

[spacemoose]

Originally Posted by bean

Review time.
-Laylax Zero Trigger with Piston Set for Marui VSR10
Once all of the annoyances are dealt with like filing or shimming this trigger is supurb. The sears are made of very good quality steel and look as though they will last many rounds within my current set up. The trigger pull is very smooth and extremly light so caution is advised. The light trigger pull combined with no working safety means you should not walk around with the gun cocked. The zero trigger also requires a small piece of the trigger guard to be cut off. As fo the piston it is made with good material metal and is very light. You can remove the white air break and install the black metal grub screw if you loc tite it in. This will give you a slight boost in fps. The white air break is used to slughtly plug up the cylinder head creating a pocket of air so the piston slowly finishes its last bit of travel to reduce noise.
-King Arms Silencer Adapter for Marui VSR-10 ( 14mm- )
Its a silencer adaptor what more can i say it works but if i were to buy one again i would go witht he positive threaded one. You must remove a tiny o ring if you want to feed a iner barrel into it
-Laylax Mode-2 23x250mm Slim Supperssor
A nice supressor with no markings. The supressor has a positive and a negative end so it can be used on a multitude of guns. The silencer works as it is supposed to but if it were a bit larger may dampen more noise. The silencer is the perfect size and matches the outer barrel's outer diameter perfectly. Has a nice flat black paint job although it doesnt seem as robust of a job as say the paint on the outer barrel of the vsr.
-Laylax PSS10 6.03mm Inner Barrel for Marui VSR-10 & G-Spec ( 555mm )
Its longer tighter and faster than before. The barrel is made of a much higher quality material then the stock barrel. The surface of the inner barrel is very smooth.
-Laylax PSS10 150 Spring for TM VSR-10
Good quality spring that gets you near the 500fps mark with all of the other upgrades. Dont be alarmed if the spring is longer than the cylinder it will settle down nicely once installed. So do not cut off any coils
-Laylax PSS10 Stainless Smooth Bearing Spring Guide for Marui VSR-10
This is a high quality bearing spring guide. It is made sturdy and looks as though it wont break like the cheap plastic one marui installed. Word for the wise is that you should unscrew it and use some thread lock inside it. When you cock the gun it will slightly twist the spring causing the top of the spring guide to turn unscrewing it. If it is unscrewed to a point it wont cock. So thread lock is your friend.
-Silent damper
A piece of rubber meant to make the gun a bit more silent. Im more interested in it dampening the smack of the piston coliding with the cylinder head.
-Laylax spring tensioner
Little black rings you put on the spring guide to give you that little extra power

Any questions about any of the above please feel free to ask.

Where does one find laylax upgrade parts? is their a canadian supplier?

[bean]

Any retailer can bring them in

[bean]

For those of you sending me pm's with questions on upgrading the vsr please ask in here. If you have the question likely someone else does. It will help me when i make the sniper faq later also.

[BBS]

ok i'll start you guys off.

what is the most basic upgrade and the most cost effective yet reliable for the VSR-10 with a PSS10 130 spring (400 fps or so). For Springs of PSS10 120 and under you don't need anything other reinforment upgrades.

[bean]

You can attempt to try and upgrade the sears of the stock trigger unit. I was warned several times by different people and things that i have read that the upgraded sears have lots of problems. Some odnt engage the piston etc. Quantis had a shitload of problems until he got a zero trigger. The gears are super reinforced in the zero trigger it comes with a very nice piston and the trigger pull is awesome. Sniping is expensive espicially in Canada. Other things to look at are tightbores and new hop up units.

[CalvinTat]

I found this guide by Dusk very helpful.

Dusk's VSR-10 Upgrade Guide

[CalvinTat]

I got two issues (One minor) with two different VSR-10 G-Spec's

Both VSR-10 were set up with the following upgrade parts:

Laylax PSS10 Zero Trigger and Piston
Laylax PSS10 Cylinder Head Pro
Laylax PSS10 170% Spring (the other might be using switched over to a 150%)
Laylax PSS10 (G-spec) Barrel Spacers
Laylax PSS10 Teflon Cylinder
Laylax PSS10 Bearing Spring Guide
Laylax PSS10 6.03mm Tightbore

Parts not yet installed:

Laylax PSS10 Silent Dampers
Nine-Ball Hop-Up for VSR-10 (and other guns)

Basicly, anything you could buy for a VSR-10 was bought, with the exception of a new bolt handle.

The issue that came up was when the piston was installed, it at first would only properly cock maybe 1 out of 10 bolt pulls. Later on the O-ring itself was torn and it would no longer seal properly, and we are unable to remove the Cylinder head to replace said O-ring.

Any ideas as to what is/was causing this problem?

At first I figured it was an issue with the cylinder being installed wrong, but that is nearly impossible to do. Only other thing might be the Zero Trigger?

Does anyone have a clue as to what size to Piston's O-ring size is?

bean, on the 2nd VSR-10 G-spec (which cocks and fires fine, havn't had time to do a FPS check yet), which Silent Damper would be better to use, thin or thick?

Also interested in any inconsistencies (which Tsuru mentioned) that you personally may have encountered with the silent dampers.

Yay for VSR-10's!!

[bean]

Ok i know exactly why the one gun isnt cocking. Did the piston have the silent shaft on it or did you place the little grub screw in? If you put the black grub screw in it will back out an dhit the spring guide making it almost impossible to cock. Take it out and threadlock it in. It could also be the spring guide is loose. The spring guide actually can unscrew and does essentially the same thing the screw does. Sometimes you just have to use a little force to take the cylinder head off. Of course if you cross threaded it i cant really help you. The silent dampers are a set meant to be used together. The fps variation isnt enough to be bothered by it i find. it iwll make your setup last much longer. I think at most it will have a 10 fps +- variation.

[CalvinTat]

The piston on the VSR-10 with the cocking issue only used the silent shaft, not the grub screw. I'll thread lock both spring guides (if I can get the cylinder head off) sometime this week.

So, i'm assuming the thinner damper goes onto the back side of the Cylinder head (the side that is facing into the cylinder) and the thicker is placed onto the piston.

I'll just go to Cambodian Tire to get a few O-rings and see if one of them match with the other O-ring.

Thanks for the help bean.

[bean]

The stock oring fromt he stock piston works far better then the laylax one.

[bean]

If those fixes dont work feel free to hit me up with some more questions. I have one last idea, but i think its the spring guide.

[tsuru]

I've been doing some more research on the silent damper/fps inconsistency issue and it seems that this mostly occurs at higher FPS.
If anyone is looking for a takedown guide (including cylinder head removal but not including cylinder head pin removal) take a look at this
I've also managed to find a cached version of 888's VSR-10 guide here

[tsuru]

Originally Posted by BBS

ok i'll start you guys off.

what is the most basic upgrade and the most cost effective yet reliable for the VSR-10 with a PSS10 130 spring (400 fps or so). For Springs of PSS10 120 and under you don't need anything other reinforment upgrades.

My PSS10 130 spring actually brought me up to 440FPS with a 430mm tightbore. The 120 spring would be closer to 400FPS AFAIK.
Most of the issues I've found with upgraded sears and such are brand incompatibilities. For example the Deepfire sear set is really only meant to be used with the stock Marui piston. Use it with the PDI, Laylax or Firefly pistons and you'll have problems from the beginning. Most of the success stories you read are from people who have used exclusively one brand for piston/sear combinations. Not that this is any kind of guarantee but it does up your chances.

[CalvinTat]

Wow, something is seriously wrong with my VSR then. I chrono'd my gun at our RAAT game on sat.
The results I got were [with silencer on, if it actually makes a diff] : 470FPS w. 0.20s || 350FPS with SGM 0.29 (with Hop-Up) with these upgrades.

Laylax PSS10 Zero Trigger and Piston (Plastic Air Brake has been left in, have yet to de-pin the stock cylinder to take O-ring out)
Laylax PSS10 Cylinder Head Pro
Laylax PSS10 170% Spring
Laylax PSS10 (G-spec) Barrel Spacers (Only installed one)
Laylax PSS10 Teflon Cylinder
Laylax PSS10 Bearing Spring Guide
Laylax PSS10 Silent Dampers

{keep in mind, the Dampers and Air Brake were put in to insure that the gun lasts for a longer period of time, I can live with the lower FPS due to these.}

I'm not dissappointed in the results, but I would have prefered a bit more around the the 425FPS range with 0.29s

Could my low-ish FPS be caused by the shitty O-ring that comes with the Laylax Piston?

[tsuru]

The best way to check if your O-ring is causing a problem would be to check your cylinder compression although I've heard that the Laylax pistons may not play nice with the test but in any case:
-Remove the stock from the receiver
-Remove your outer barrel
-Your cylinder should now be sticking out of the receiver where you can access the head of the cylinder
-Cock the gun as you normally would
-Place your finger on the end of the cylinder head so that it blocks the flow of air and pull the trigger
-If your cylinder compression is good the piston will barely move in the cylinder until you let go with your finger, in which case it should slam forwards as usual

Please note that due to the porting on the pistons from Laylax and PDI this may not work with your setup but it's worth giving it a shot.

If your compression works well or your hardware is incompatible with the test you may also want to consider Teflon (plumber) taping your hop up. Since it's not listed in your upgrades list I'm assuming you're running the stock hop rubber. The purpose of the Teflon tape is to assure that air does not escape from between the inner barrel and the hop rubber. If you take apart your whole hop assembly you just need to wrap some Teflon tape around both the inner barrel and the hop rubber where they meet. I know I saw about a 10 FPS increase when I did this with my stock VSR-10 spring. It should make a larger difference at higher FPS.
The only other location for air to escape is between the cylinder head and the hop rubber in the opposite direction of travel. The only way that I know of to fix this is to place Teflon tape around the tip of the cylinder head nozzle and/or to get the Nine Ball hop up replacement rubber. Either method creates a better seal around the cylinder head nozzle thus forcing more air behind the BB.