Length of upgraded spring?

[Crunchmeister]

Battery like everyone else said. An an 8.4v 1100mah is not powerful enough to pull that heavy-ass spring with stock gears and stock motor. It's not the motor, and as you've repeatedly been told (but seem to ignore), spring length has nothing to do with it.

You'll find that upgrades (particularly strong springs) aren't as simple as just dropping in a new spring. More often than not, you'll need other parts like larger batteries, possibly torque-up gears (highly recommended with a spring that powerful), and possibly a high torque motor. And you WILL blow that non-reinforced mechbox shell all to shit with that spring.

[Janz99]

Sorry if it seems like im ignoring the suggestion, but i have tried two other batteries other then my 8.4 1100mah. A friend of mine put the same s120 spring in his gun with a bearing spring guide, and his battery pulled it over just fine. We have tried his batt in my gun and it still wouldnt pull mine over. His gun is a kraken ak47 with v3 mech box, so maybe this is why his was able to pull it over with that particular battery and mine wasnt?

[m102404]

I have an 8.4v 600mAh mini that can crank a M120...used to have two, but I ran it so much in the first season that it wouldn't hold a charge anymore. It won't do it well...it won't do it for very long...but it will crank it without anything added to a STOCK TM ver 2 other than the spring (and good shimming). That's with a TM EG1000 motor.

That setup will pull M100, M110 and M120 spring (but really doesn't last long on the M120's and M110's). Those rifles are still shooting after really heavy 1st season use, and so-so second season use. They're now backups/spares/dust-collectors.

I don't really get where the definitive stock + 50fps is ok, but stock + 51-99 will destroy your mechbox. But I suppose that could be the case with other's experiences. It's not my experience.

I have never definitively needed torque up gears to pull a M120...they're nice, they reduce the load on the motor...but they're NOT must haves to pull a M120. IMHO, that's bullshit.

You're troubleshooting your mechbox on why it will pull a M90/M100 but not a M110/M120.
1. Ensure that it's setup really nicely for M90/M100. If it's shooting smooth, it's ready for the next spring.
2. Try the M110. If that doesn't work, look at fully charged battery 1st, wiring 2nd, and motor 3rd. That's the order that takes the least amount of work, ensures the fundamentals are solid and eliminates base problems that may be masked with other "fixes".
3. Once working, confirm that it works with a M120. It shouldn't skip a beat, but the motor will sound like it's working harder ('cause it is).

A M120 is unnecessary unless your field limits are more than 400fps...you're batteries, motor, mechbox and opposing players will thank you in the long run for stepping down to a M110.

[Crunchmeister]

Tyson, I agree that a good mini battery can pull an M120 spring. I had an 8.4V 1200 mAh Firefox battery that would pull over my HK416 with an M120 just fine. Rate of fire was low but it worked.

However, a stock JG mini batteriy doesn't have a very good discharge rate. My 8.4v 1100 mAh battery that came with my JG MP5 could pull its 340 fps spring without issue. That same battery can't turn over the mechbox on my C7A2 which has an MS110SP spring. I've also tried the same battery in my A&K M249 that shoots 395 fps. It won't turn that over either.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Janz99

Well, the modify springs are about 3/8-1/2" longer then the stock springs. Ive also tried two different batteries, and niether of them would turn over the spring as well. Ive also tried going back to the stock spring guide to see if that extra bit shorter would allow it to turn over and it didnt.

I really think its the motor at this point?

The reason i have even been trying to upgrade the gun, was to try and make it a bit more accurate. The added fps was just a bonus. I tried to use the gun with the stock spring now, but because i had to trim off the hook on the end, and cant use the factory aluminum spacer that attaches to the piston head, the gun seems like its LOBBING in the BB's. They dont shoot a straight tradgectory (sp) anymore. It was actually better when it was stock then it is now with the bearnig piston head, bearing spring guide and nozzle.

Ryan

If you're looking for more range we should talk... Upgrading your gun to be a great preforming, far shooting gun is ALOT more than adding more FPS.

I've seen upgraded 270 fps guns that can out-shoot a perfectly healthy 400 FPS gun.

I literally just came upstairs from working on a DPMS MP5, You'll need a new piston head for sure, the stock one it comes with is garbage and it wont last very long... The Cylinder head is also complete crap (atleast in the MP5, it was 2 different parts that were held together by friction)

If you want I can built you a gun that will be the envy of the people you play with

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by Amos

If you're looking for more range we should talk... Upgrading your gun to be a great preforming, far shooting gun is ALOT more than adding more FPS.

I've seen upgraded 270 fps guns that can out-shoot a perfectly healthy 400 FPS gun.

Very true... my lowest velocity gun is my Real Sword, which shoots 300-310 fps. It will outrange ANY of my guns, even my prize C7 shooting 385 fps.

[Janz99]

Im going to put the gun back together tongith with the stock spring back in it. I'll try and make a video of what is happening with the BB's. I dont think i am exlpaining it right. Ever since i took the gun apart to upgrade it, it seems as though the BB's have an arc to them. The exact opposite arc you would see if you had your hop up turned all the way down into the barrel.

I am not stuck on trying to get this gun to shoot XX fps, like i said, the spring was just an added bonus that i ordered. To be honest, if i could get the gun to shoot consistant and straight id be plenty happy.

Other then the spring the gun also has a modify polycarbonate bearing piston head, bearing spring guide, air tip nozzle, and a mad bull tight bore barrel.

Ryan

[SHÖCK]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Tyson, I agree that a good mini battery can pull an M120 spring. I had an 8.4V 1200 mAh Firefox battery that would pull over my HK416 with an M120 just fine. Rate of fire was low but it worked.

However, a stock JG mini batteriy doesn't have a very good discharge rate. My 8.4v 1100 mAh battery that came with my JG MP5 could pull its 340 fps spring without issue. That same battery can't turn over the mechbox on my C7A2 which has an MS110SP spring. I've also tried the same battery in my A&K M249 that shoots 395 fps. It won't turn that over either.

I have to disagree there. My stock JG 8.4v 1100mah battery seems to be able to pull m130 springs while two brand new Tenergy 9.6v 1400mah minis weren't able to!

In the end, not all batteries are made equal and seriously, the problem is the battery like we have all told you. It has nothing to do with length. Length makes absolutely no sense at all since length is variable and dependant on the stiffness and factory compression of the spring. I could have an insanely long spring that is weak in my gun and it would still pull. I could have an Airsoft Surgeon Stage 5 that is like 5 inches long only and it won't pull.

The reason the Kraken can do it is because it's built to come from factory with a 400 FPS spring stock. It's a different combination of V3 gearbox, gears, a stronger motor, etc. You can also change all those on your gun if you like - get torque up gears, a systeme magnum, etc. but that is all pretty stupid when you can just get a bigger battery. Go find somebody with a lipo battery or a large battery (not a mini). Something like 8.4v or 9.6v 4000mah and the motor will turn over easily.

[Janz99]

I disagree with your statement about the spring length not making a differance. If the spring is longer and has tighter coiling, which the modify springs i have do. The spring could actually bottom out on itself before the piston actually travels through its entire strock.

Im not saying this is DEFINITLY the problem in my case, since im just speculating, but to say that spring length is irrelivent would be wrong. I even tried my buddies kracken spring in my mechbox(380-400fps) and the gear box/battery pulled it back just fine.

In addition to that, adding a bearing sping guide and a bearing piston head, take up just over 1/2" more room then the factory components. So i dont think its nieve of me to think that a longer, tighter wound spring, in a SMALLER space, could infact bottom itself out before the piston has a chance to go through its full travel.

Ryan

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Janz99

I disagree with your statement about the spring length not making a differance. If the spring is longer and has tighter coiling, which the modify springs i have do. The spring could actually bottom out on itself before the piston actually travels through its entire strock.

Im not saying this is DEFINITLY the problem in my case, since im just speculating, but to say that spring length is irrelivent would be wrong. I even tried my buddies kracken spring in my mechbox(380-400fps) and the gear box/battery pulled it back just fine.

In addition to that, adding a bearing sping guide and a bearing piston head, take up just over 1/2" more room then the factory components. So i dont think its nieve of me to think that a longer, tighter wound spring, in a SMALLER space, could infact bottom itself out before the piston has a chance to go through its full travel.

Ryan

That's not the problem you're having, I've upgraded quite a few guns with modify bearing spring guides and piston heads with modify springs.

I'm 90% sure your motor is too weak.

[Janz99]

Originally Posted by Amos

That's not the problem you're having, I've upgraded quite a few guns with modify bearing spring guides and piston heads with modify springs.

I'm 90% sure your motor is too weak.

What modify springs do you guys normaly use?

[m102404]

I've gone through about 15-20 Modify springs in the last couple of months. S90, S100, S110, S120. They've all worked perfectly and are very consistent spring to spring.

Modify bearing spring guides and Modify bearing piston heads in a lot of setups...still enough clearance to fully compress...or I wouldn't be using them.

Jugglez can't keep enough of them in stock...I buy 4-6 at a time, unless he's run out (as of tonight...he's out of S120...)

Tys

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Janz99

What modify springs do you guys normaly use?

S90 generally gives my medium barrel builds about 330-350 FPS, S100 generally gives a nice healthy 375-380 FPS (all on .2)

With an auto AEG, there's no need to go over 380 FPS, unless you buy a VERY expensive hop-up rubber you wont see any range or accuracy increases, and it'll only stress your gun out more.

DPMS (Old stock JG stuff) is some-what fragile, so going that high in FPS isn't recommended.

As I've said before FPS != Performance

[Janz99]

I finally got the gun fireing straight after all this work! The reason it was shooting at a downward arc is because one of the shafts that holds the gears in place on the hop up was broken. If you played with it outside the gun, half the time it would still push the bucking up, but the other half it wouldnt. I replaced the hop up unit, and now it fires great! This was all with the kracken AK spring in it.

I also ordered a new motor for the gun, so once it comes in i will test out the s110 spring again and see if i can pull it over. Next on the list will be to upgrade the battery, possibly a lipo if i convience myself im not going to blow it up!

Thanks again for all the help guys!

Ryan

[ShelledPants]

I had an 11.1v 20c 1600mah lipo in a shimmed, but otherwise stock, kraken shooting 330fps. The RoF was ridiculous, but I never stripped my piston.

Originally Posted by Janz99

I finally got the gun fireing straight after all this work! The reason it was shooting at a downward arc is because one of the shafts that holds the gears in place on the hop up was broken. If you played with it outside the gun, half the time it would still push the bucking up, but the other half it wouldnt. I replaced the hop up unit, and now it fires great! This was all with the kracken AK spring in it.

I also ordered a new motor for the gun, so once it comes in i will test out the s110 spring again and see if i can pull it over. Next on the list will be to upgrade the battery, possibly a lipo if i convience myself im not going to blow it up!

Thanks again for all the help guys!

Ryan