WETTI/AWSS - M4/SCAR/HK416 - Technical Summary Thread

[m102404]

I started the build of a new FPS adjustment system for the WE system.

*note: this is for the current gen of the "brass tube" system...not the "open bolt" version yet to come*

It will not require any mod to the floating valve.

It will be "field adjustable"...you'll need to field strip to take the bolt out to get at the nozzle, but I don't think that you'll need to take the nozzle out of the bolt.

It will be a direct mod or drop in to an existing rifle. I suspect that I'll be able to mod the existing part...or if it's more convenient just trade a modded part for an unmodded part.

You will not be required to take the nozzle apart like you have to for mods that affect the floating valve.

I've just got to pick up another die and then I can complete it this week.

Fingers crossed.

[m102404]

BTW...I bought some black hopup rubbers (new type) and a stainless steel tightbore barrel (comes with black hopup rubber). The nub of the black rubber protrudes nicely into the stainless barrel...but protrudes too much into the stock brass barrel.

A fix for this is to file/cut/shave down the black rubber nub when using it on a stock brass barrel.

It's not a matter of the ball bearing being too big or anything like that...it's just that the hopup rubber nub is long.

Tys

[m102404]

version pre-2 of the FPS adjuster is finished...ready for some tests.

Assembly went together better the 2nd try (always does).

Unknown if it offers any real upside to the RATech one. It does only cost about $0.25 in materials though and took (2nd try) 15min to make.

Two main downsides:
1. Really does need loctite (just as all assemblies do) to stay put for field usage....so rapid adjustment is figurative. I suppose you could adjust it, check, adjust it, check and then loctite it.

- the RAtech one does not need loctite...so it's check, adjust, check, adjust

2. The adjustment collar is tight and small...good in that it wont go anywhere, not so good in that you need pliers to grip it to turn it (or freakishly tiny little fairy hands).

Major Upside:
- basically free (to me )
- kept me out of trouble for 2 evenings

Pics later

Tys

[Papabois]

Originally Posted by m102404

Major Upside:
- basically free (to me )
- kept me out of trouble for 2 evenings

Tys

Right on man. Home-made goods are great.

I also trimmed my hop up rubber nub; although, I trimmed mine off completely, leaving just a rubber band.

Then I made a longer pre-load bearing, to make up for the lack of depth, created by the complete removal of the nub.

End result; I can turn the hop completely off, or completely on (enough to jam BBs good), and anything in between.

Also, I found the rubber bit in which the nozzle goes into, has to be sanded to remove any flash, that will make your BBs hook. Sighting down the barrel (when removed), will show how much the un-trimmed flashing, will protrude into the way of an incoming BB. Sand until everything is lined up (see rendering)

[PrIeSt]

omg I want both these guns. but sooo much to read

technical gibberish FTL

[Gato]

Originally Posted by takagari

omg I want both these guns. but sooo much to read

technical gibberish FTL

Not really sure how that was helpful or relevant, this IS a "Technical summary thread" so if I were you I'd have stayed out of it if "Technical gibberish is FTL, some of us can comprehend our guns beyong "this makes it go pew pew"

How hard are these home made adjusters to make? I'd appreciate it if we could get a look at em at the Gasgun Famil session. If it's not too hard to make I might just give it a shot for my Scar if possible

[m102404]

Originally Posted by Papabois

Right on man. Home-made goods are great.

I also trimmed my hop up rubber nub; although, I trimmed mine off completely, leaving just a rubber band.

Then I made a longer pre-load bearing, to make up for the lack of depth, created by the complete removal of the nub.

End result; I can turn the hop completely off, or completely on (enough to jam BBs good), and anything in between.

Also, I found the rubber bit in which the nozzle goes into, has to be sanded to remove any flash, that will make your BBs hook. Sighting down the barrel (when removed), will show how much the un-trimmed flashing, will protrude into the way of an incoming BB. Sand until everything is lined up (see rendering)

LOL...got to stay out of trouble.

The over sized nub is ok for indoors CQB...but I'll trim it for field use this week. No jamming though with it turned all the way off the other night.

What did you use for an extended nub? I used a thin slice of silicone wire shielding under the ball bearing on another buddy's rifle...works fine. I figured it would "give" enough not to under/over hop things.

I'd greatly appreciate more detail on shaving the flashing...I haven't had to do that myself yet.

Originally Posted by takagari

omg I want both these guns. but sooo much to read

technical gibberish FTL

FUCK OFF

Originally Posted by Gato

Not really sure how that was helpful or relevant, this IS a "Technical summary thread" so if I were you I'd have stayed out of it if "Technical gibberish is FTL, some of us can comprehend our guns beyong "this makes it go pew pew"

How hard are these home made adjusters to make? I'd appreciate it if we could get a look at em at the Gasgun Famil session. If it's not too hard to make I might just give it a shot for my Scar if possible

Both home made adjusters are easy to make. Litterally minutes. If you bring the nozzle by, I'll make one for you to field/test.

[Papabois]

Here is some renderings, of the hop area mods done.

If ya can't get the nozzle seal part perfectly even (when sighting down the barrel), install it so that any protruding part is at the top of the barrel. This way, any hooking left will be beneficial, in the form of hop-up. strive to have no protrution though.

To trim the hop-up rubber nub, flip it inside out, and cut off with razor.

[m102404]

Thank you, very helpful.

I have some derlin...maybe I'll make a new nub out of that.

You know what? I don't think I've ever taken a really close look at that part (I kind of think my barrel doesn't even have it.

Is it this part?

http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ep...roducts_id=292

Does it fit into the chamber of the actual inner barrel?

My inner barrel is just the barrel (think AEG inner barrel), with the slots/cuts for the chamber/tube and receiver adaptor. At the very end of the chamber where the nozzle would go (just before the hopup) there is a recessed cutout/slot in the barrel...always wondered what that was for. It would look like this piece would "snap" into that. If I'm describing it right...my rifle (and a bunch of others) never came with that piece at all...and they work fine. LOL

[PrIeSt]

Wow you guys are nice.

Didnt think my gun just went Pew. Thanks though.

I've read most of this now. It seems the rifles keep getting modded/upgraded and require a lot of work. As well they seem to updating some issues right out of the factory.

Is there a model to lean toawrds that is best for this upgrading? Or when ordering is it hit or miss. I dont have the ability to build my own parts but would be willing to purchase off the forums to get the gun running.

My FTL comment was more towards the cost confusion. You are putting a lot of work into getting these rifles running. I am wondering if the cost of a 600 dollar gbbr is than being bumped to closer to 1000 just to get it firing properly. Or is it less of a cast factor for some of these upgrades?

I dont see how starting a new thread would help whatsoever?

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by takagari

Wow you guys are nice.

Didnt think my gun just went Pew. Thanks though.

I've read most of this now. It seems the rifles keep getting modded/upgraded and require a lot of work. As well they seem to updating some issues right out of the factory.

Is there a model to lean toawrds that is best for this upgrading? Or when ordering is it hit or miss. I dont have the ability to build my own parts but would be willing to purchase off the forums to get the gun running.

My FTL comment was more towards the cost confusion. You are putting a lot of work into getting these rifles running. I am wondering if the cost of a 600 dollar gbbr is than being bumped to closer to 1000 just to get it firing properly. Or is it less of a cast factor for some of these upgrades?

I dont see how starting a new thread would help whatsoever?

No one has put $400 into getting the WETTI to run out of the box. If you don't mind firing 400 fps... then you can go field it the day you buy it.

If you want an adjustable FPS... you need to sink some cash into the gun, but it's not much more than a spring upgrade on an AEG (plus gun doc time) and then you can adjust your FPS on the fly.

[m102404]

Now that was a more constructive post...

Firstly...this is meant as a technical summary thread re. upgrades, mods, break/fix solutions, etc.... I think that it'd be natural for someone to read through this and say..."Crap, there's a lot of stuff to do"...but my personal opinion would be that that stance would be largely false.

Quick summary of likely issues/fixes:
1. Part#66 (M4 part number...the same part for the SCAR but it's not listed in it's parts list...odd). The stock casted part breaks (from 0-4000 rounds). The replacement CNC steel part does not. Costs ~$20...takes 15min to swap in.

2. Knocker assembly. Some people have noted that their knocker gets mushed/worn. I have not personally seen this...but there is a steel part available as a drop in. ~$25-30...takes 15min to swap in.

3. Hopup is too little/much. Front end disassembly is required. UNDERSTANDING what needs to happen is key to fixing it. Mods are minor, take minutes to do. Disassembly/reassembly is dependant on the guy with the wrench.

4. Rear flange of piston body becomes loose on the SCAR (not an issue with the M4). This is a design problem in that the material used for the piston body is mild metal. RATech makes a much stronger one.

5. Centering (white) collar of M4 piston body slides forward with normal operation...causing hangups. Move it back, replace with a tighter one, remove it altogether, drill/tap a grub screw to pin it into place. All fixes are simple and nearly free.

6. Mags leak. Regrease seals, reinstall. Keep gas pressure in them when storing, use frequently, use silicone oil when filling mags. Simple to do...cost depends on how much your grease/oil costs.

So...all in all...not too shabby. The rifle will work out of the box. It may shoot hot/high fps...so there's a lot of concern about bringing it down for general field use. Known methods:
1. Use duster gas. Pricey.
2. Add a spacer into the valve to push the float valve forward. Nearly free, simple and solid. Not adjustable for temp differences, need to unscrew the valve.
3. Thread more of rod and turn the nozzle more in/out adjust where the float valve is positioned. Simple and easy to do...getting it to stay where you want it is key. This is what I'm working on right now.
4. Either make an assembly similar to...or buy the modded RATech float valve. It's basically a screw held in the float valve that adjusts it's position. Cheap, easy to install, easy to adjust.

Are gas rifles as simple to use as AEGs? Yes and no. If both are working, the GBBR will require regular inspection (preventative) and maintenance (tighten screws, lube parts, etc....just as you would do with a real rifle). If you think GBBRs are prone to failing....take a troll through the number of threads at any given time about AEGs not working

Are gas rifles expensive....yes and no. You're looking at $600-1000 for the rifle...$40-90/mag. So the start up cost is hefty. A solid, good quality, well built AEG will run you $600-1000 and mags are $10-30 each. So about the same. But with an AEG you have batteries and a charger to buy as well. BBs are the same for either. So...really the difference is in the mags.

You could go low quality/cost on the AEG...and to an extent you can do the same with gas rifles. Because of the forces involved with a GBBR (parts really slam around hard in them) low quality parts or inherent design issues will cause failures. Low quality AEGs fail too.

I've built more than a few AEGs...a couple of WA system GBBRs and fiddled a fair bit with the WE system. I much prefer the simplicity of the WE system.

Although I (and thankfully others) post a lot of "I did this, I did that" information...it's in the hopes of clarifying and distilling down all the reams of info and half baked mis-information out there down to simply, "this works...and that doesn't" for guys who are trying to figure out what to get, how to maintain/fix what they have, or just don't have the means to build/try stuff themselves (i.e. guys like you).

So...no apologies offered for telling someone to fuck off when an absolutely pointless post is added to this thread. You just added 2 more posts (yours and Gato's reply) to the amounts that the next guy is expected to read.

Be helpful by adding info, ask constructive questions, etc....but keep the pointless garbage for the zillions of other threads out there.

Tys

[Papabois]

Originally Posted by m102404

Is it this part?

http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ep...roducts_id=292

Does it fit into the chamber of the actual inner barrel?
LOL

Yes and yes.

It does go into the beginning of the barrel. The napas nozzle goes right into it. The hop-up is right in front of it.

[m102404]

I've eyeballed min 3 rifles so far that don't have that part (and maybe others that I didn't disassemble the front end to look specifically), 1 aftermarket barrel (didn't come with it).

Bummer...I'll have to find one of those and see what effect it has. All the rifles I've seen/heard reports from...the guys say they shoot really, really well.

Maybe I'll machine my own little spacer and see if it changes/improves anything.

I suppose by taking up the space between the nozzle and inner barrel, it'll help center the nozzle and there's less chance of a jam lodging between the outside of the nozzle nose and the inside of the chamber area of the inner barrel.

BTW... I modded 2 nozzles tonight with adjustable systems...2 different methods/variations. The guys are going to field them and report back. Takes about 15-20min/nozzle (right from field stripping the rifle, to taking apart the nozzle, to modding things, to reassembly, to test). Took 3 tries to set the velocity on one rifle (just over 400, too low and then just right)...the other one we'll chrony later.

I've got a new idea...it'll be a bit more complicated but should be rock solid.

[Shirley]

Andax Tango Down ARC Magazine Shell.

Pretty cool if you got busted up metal shell when you drop and replace with these. Seems a bit bulky.
Comes in tan or black.
Not bad to save your mags when you drop them.



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