Prometheus galore- PROJECT COMPLETE (Sept 11, 2010)

[Amos]

Stock gears is subjective... every brand is different..

But you mentioned a CA motor.. so I'm gonna assume it's CA gears..

They should be able to pull a 110... they'll pull a 120 but they probably wont like it too much with the stock CA motor (they're built for RPM not torque)

Get yourself a G&P M120 motor when you order the springs... then you wont have to worry about any of that.

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Amos

Stock gears is subjective... every brand is different..

But you mentioned a CA motor.. so I'm gonna assume it's CA gears..

They should be able to pull a 110... they'll pull a 120 but they probably wont like it too much with the stock CA motor (they're built for RPM not torque)

Get yourself a G&P M120 motor when you order the springs... then you wont have to worry about any of that.

Is it this the one ure talking about? It said that its for high speed, and not high torque though.. http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/gandp-m12...r-for-aeg.html

Also, I know that your final FPS will depend on your entire setup and not just your spring. You mentioned before that a 110 gave you 370-390, while a 120 gave you 380-415 FPS. Now if i was to get either spring (110 or 120) with my currently Prometheus internals (air nozzle, cylinder, cylinder head, tappet plate, anti reversal, piston, piston head and tightbore inner barrel), what would you estimate my final FPS to be for either spring? I know its a tough question, but given your experiencec with prometheus products, what would be your best estimate?

[Amos]

Originally Posted by turok_t

Is it this the one ure talking about? It said that its for high speed, and not high torque though.. http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/gandp-m12...r-for-aeg.html

Also, I know that your final FPS will depend on your entire setup and not just your spring. You mentioned before that a 110 gave you 370-390, while a 120 gave you 380-415 FPS. Now if i was to get either spring (110 or 120) with my currently Prometheus internals (air nozzle, cylinder, cylinder head, tappet plate, anti reversal, piston, piston head and tightbore inner barrel), what would you estimate my final FPS to be for either spring? I know its a tough question, but given your experiencec with prometheus products, what would be your best estimate?

More dependent on barrel length and all that stuff..

You really should just purchase both springs and a chronograph and fine-tune everything.. You can get a really good chrono for like $70

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/gandp-m17...ong-motor.html Get that motor, and a mosfet that can control motor speed.. And you wont have to worry about it not being able to pull the spring ever again

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Amos

More dependent on barrel length and all that stuff..

You really should just purchase both springs and a chronograph and fine-tune everything.. You can get a really good chrono for like $70

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/gandp-m17...ong-motor.html Get that motor, and a mosfet that can control motor speed.. And you wont have to worry about it not being able to pull the spring ever again

Whoa, so its the M170 motor? Not the M120 motor?

[Amos]

I was just kidding, the 120 will do just fine. It says it's for speed, but the actual motor its self has enough torque to pull a 120 spring without any problems.

the 170 is way more than you'll even need lol

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Amos

I was just kidding, the 120 will do just fine. It says it's for speed, but the actual motor its self has enough torque to pull a 120 spring without any problems.

the 170 is way more than you'll even need lol

LOL, i just emailed and submitted 3 orders to TMC and airsoft global.. they are going to get pissed off at me!

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by turok_t

hey guys, im trying to push my Prom MS135 spring in the mechbox while closing the two halves.. The spring is soooo stiff and i cant seem to push it in while close the box, any suggestions?

Lift some weights and/or do some push ups.

Originally Posted by turok_t

Then how come on on websites it states that the MS135 is rated at 380-390fps?

With .25g BB...

Originally Posted by turok_t

1. So if i get a M120, what "approximate" FPS would it give me?

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/SpringChart.php
In *most* setups, it'll put you right around 400fps. Only in highly tuned and heavily maintained setups can it reach higher. I've seen some setups hit 440fps with this spring, but it's rare.

Originally Posted by turok_t

2. Whats the difference between "MS" and "M" ?

Different companies, different systems, different acronyms... but in the end, it's the same thing.



As a final note, it is highly recommend to also upgrade your gears to Prometheus Double Torque gears as well, to support any spring rated at M120 or higher. While motors and batteries can compensate for the lack of torque a standard ratio gear set may provide, it is not ideal as your motor will experience higher current arcs, your trigger switch will arc higher (and burn out faster), and your battery will experience higher consumption.
Depending on the severity of your setup, you may also experience overdrive, which will prematurely strip your piston.

While most users choose to skip the gears as a cost effective and short-term method of upgrading to 400fps, it will hinder the long term durability of your aeg, causing you to replace parts sooner rather than later. Such setups generally last around 1-3 years, depending on how heavy the AEG is used.
The cost of a replacement motor and piston reaches the cost of a quality set of gears (that you'll end up having to replace sooner anyways). Might as well do the upgrade right from the start.

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Lift some weights and/or do some push ups.


With .25g BB...


http://www.airsoftcanada.com/SpringChart.php
In *most* setups, it'll put you right around 400fps. Only in highly tuned and heavily maintained setups can it reach higher. I've seen some setups hit 440fps with this spring, but it's rare.


Different companies, different systems, different acronyms... but in the end, it's the same thing.



As a final note, it is highly recommend to also upgrade your gears to Prometheus Double Torque gears as well, to support any spring rated at M120 or higher. While motors and batteries can compensate for the lack of torque a standard ratio gear set may provide, it is not ideal as your motor will experience higher current arcs, your trigger switch will arc higher (and burn out faster), and your battery will experience higher consumption.
Depending on the severity of your setup, you may also experience overdrive, which will prematurely strip your piston.

While most users choose to skip the gears as a cost effective and short-term method of upgrading to 400fps, it will hinder the long term durability of your aeg, causing you to replace parts sooner rather than later. Such setups generally last around 1-3 years, depending on how heavy the AEG is used.
The cost of a replacement motor and piston reaches the cost of a quality set of gears (that you'll end up having to replace sooner anyways). Might as well do the upgrade right from the start.

1. Ahh, thanks Brian. How much better are the PRom double torque gears compared to my stock CA gears??

2. Actually, here is another question for anyone that was a bit puzzling for me. When I was installing the new cylinder head in the cylinder, I was thinking, when the piston head thrusts forward in the cylinder, wouldn't the cylinder head be pushed forward over time? It is not screwed or fastened to the cylinder. How is the cylinder head secured to the cylindeR?

3. My motor wires from my G&P trigger assembly came like this. How do these ends connect to the motor or am I supposed to cut them off and attach motor connectors instead? I just wanted to make sure because Ive never seen these before:

[Amos]

CA Gears are like a gun made by Well where Prometheus gears are like a gun made by Inokatsu.

Not... sure what you mean by the cylinder.. it's held into place by the two pegs in the gearbox as well as the front of the gearbox

Those motor connectors will work perfectly with a M120 motor

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by Amos

CA Gears are like a gun made by Well where Prometheus gears are like a gun made by Inokatsu.

Not... sure what you mean by the cylinder.. it's held into place by the two pegs in the gearbox as well as the front of the gearbox

Those motor connectors will work perfectly with a M120 motor

Damn, now im really tempted to buy new Prom gears... might as well just get a new mechbox shell too..

Anyways, yes, I just saw the two pegs in the mechbox shell that holds the cylinder head in place.. How do u know if the seal between the cylinder and the cylinder head is good? I want to make sure that there is no air leaking from the sides.

You know for the pic shown in the previous post? How do I attach them to the motor since the terminals are small thin plates? Dont you need to use these ones so they can slide on top of the terminals?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by turok_t

1. Ahh, thanks Brian. How much better are the PRom double torque gears compared to my stock CA gears??

Depends in what regards:

Build quality: Prometheus
Gear Whine (quietness): Prometheus
Price: Classic Army

I use Prometheus in my own AEG's. Another analogy, is that CA gears are the wife. Prometheus gears are the smoking hot mistress.

Originally Posted by turok_t

2. Actually, here is another question for anyone that was a bit puzzling for me. When I was installing the new cylinder head in the cylinder, I was thinking, when the piston head thrusts forward in the cylinder, wouldn't the cylinder head be pushed forward over time? It is not screwed or fastened to the cylinder. How is the cylinder head secured to the cylindeR?

The pegs in the gearbox hold the cylinder head in place. Indents in the gearbox hold the cylinder in place. So essentially, the gearbox is what secures the cylinder head to the cylinder.

Originally Posted by turok_t

3. My motor wires from my G&P trigger assembly came like this. How do these ends connect to the motor or am I supposed to cut them off and attach motor connectors instead? I just wanted to make sure because Ive never seen these before:

I've never seen that before either, but I'd just clip the ends off and solder on female spade terminals.

Originally Posted by turok_t

Anyways, yes, I just saw the two pegs in the mechbox shell that holds the cylinder head in place.. How do u know if the seal between the cylinder and the cylinder head is good? I want to make sure that there is no air leaking from the sides.

Do the "air seal test". Cover the air seal nozzle with your right index finger. Place the assembled piston in to the cylinder, and jam it forward as hard as you can, as if the spring were pushing it from behind. If you have a good air seal, you should be stopped solid in mid-stroke. If there's a minor leak (usually at the base of the air seal nozzle), then the piston will be able to compress slowly, but you will still feel a great pneumatic force resisting your push on the piston assembly.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by turok_t

Damn, now im really tempted to buy new Prom gears... might as well just get a new mechbox shell too..

Anyways, yes, I just saw the two pegs in the mechbox shell that holds the cylinder head in place.. How do u know if the seal between the cylinder and the cylinder head is good? I want to make sure that there is no air leaking from the sides.

You know for the pic shown in the previous post? How do I attach them to the motor since the terminals are small thin plates? Dont you need to use these ones so they can slide on top of the terminals?

Brian's covered the airseal test,

The G&P motors come with screw terminals and small screws that allow you to screw those connectors into the a part of the motor.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by Amos

Prometheus makes great parts, But the only piston and cylinder heads I'll ever use are ARS

They provide 100% perfect air-seal and the integral sorbothane makes them greatly reduce the muzzle noise when you're shooting at someone.

Air seal is really irrelevant. you can use all sorts of different materials to make sure you get the 100% air seal in your compression system like teflon tape, silicon caulking, silicon gasket sealer etc. I use the aluminum piston heads because i want my gun to be louder. If I could get my gun to shoot reliable at 130-150Db range I would.

ARS doesnt make pistons and if they did I doubt I would use them unless they where in the 20 dollar range. Prometheus Hard, and System supercore, Stock TM are the only pistons i'll touch in my setups. But that's an aside.

I'm curious to the OP why he didnt buy a full tune up kit instead of all the individual parts. Prometheus FTKs are discontinued but many retailers still have stocks of them.

As for the gears contact RiotSC and get a set of his custom gearsets. I recommend you get the "balanced" gearset. I have pulled stock TM to Airsoft surgeon stage 6 with that gearset. Many others on ASM have gone much further. Prom double torques should also do the job if money is tight. There is a huge quality shift from Prom to Siegetek gears for the money you pay.

If you cant get that m135 spring in your box then do more pushups. If you think that's hard I'll sell you one of my extra stage 6's and you try and get that in.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

ARS doesnt make pistons

I was referring to piston and cylinder head as in: Piston head and cylinder head.

I use stock TM piston bodies in almost all of my builds

[turok_t]

After being convinced by Amos, I finally bit the bullet and just upgraded everything.. Gearbox is upgraded, gears upgraded, bearings upgraded, motor upgraded and i bought 2 springs as well..Ill post pics when i get the stuff.