Complicated thinking: Why match cylinder porting and barrel length?

[Dirty Deeds]

Originally Posted by Droc

interesting
for the longest time I wanted to put a 250mm silencer on my SR16 and drop in a PSG1 tightbore but was worried about the suction effect. There wasnt much info regarding this thus far. And judging for Dirty Deeds last post about the SR16 with the M16 barrel, its a good thing I didnt. Ill prolly hold off untill we come-up with a barrel-length to cylinder matching guide.
awsome info

Here is the silencer I purchased.

King Arms OPS Model 3rd MBS Silencer ( 230mm )
http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper..._cat_Silencers

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Droc

interesting
for the longest time I wanted to put a 250mm silencer on my SR16 and drop in a PSG1 tightbore but was worried about the suction effect. There wasnt much info regarding this thus far. And judging for Dirty Deeds last post about the SR16 with the M16 barrel, its a good thing I didnt. Ill prolly hold off untill we come-up with a barrel-length to cylinder matching guide.
awsome info

Here's your guide:

For a PSG-1 inner barrel (590mm, NOT 650mm!), you will need one of these cylinders:
- Systema Type-0
- KM Long
All of these are capable of handling up to 590mm inner barrels.
The information is all available in the product specs. If ppl are really interested, I can compile data for all brands.

If you're looking to do the 650mm inner barrel, you'll need to upgrade to a Systema bore-up Type-0 cylinder kit (which means new piston head, new cylinder, new cylinder head and new air nozzle) and you should be using at LEAST an M120 spring to get it working properly.

[ILLusion]

Okay, since I need a hardcore break from work, I've compiled the list:


Guarder Cylinder ( GE-03-01 ) G3 / M16A2 / AK
Guarder Cylinder ( GE-03-02 ) M4A1 / SR16
Guarder Cylinder ( GE-03-03 ) MP5A Series and SD Series
Guarder Cylinder ( GE-03-04 ) MP5K / PDW

Systema N-B Cylinder Type-0 ( ZS-04-16 ) M16A1 / VN / A2 / G3 / SG550 / AUG
Systema N-B Cylinder Type-1 ( ZS-04-17 ) AK47 / XM177 / SG551
Systema N-B Cylinder Type-2 ( ZS-04-18 ) MP5A4 / A5 / SD5 / SD6 / MC51
Systema N-B Cylinder Type-3 ( ZS-04-19 ) PDW
Systema N-B Cylinder Type-4 ( ZS-04-20 ) MP5K

KM TN Coated Inner Taper Cylinder for Long AEGs ( AEGS10 ) 400mm - 590mm
KM TN Coated Inner Taper Cylinder for Middle AEGs ( AEGS09 ) 200mm - 400mm
KM TN Coated Inner Taper Cylinder for Shorty AEGs ( AEGS08 ) <200mm

Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder ( A ) 451 - 550mm
Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder ( B ) 401 - 450mm
Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder ( C ) 301 - 400mm
Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder ( D ) 251 - 300mm
Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder ( E ) 201 - 250mm
Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder ( F ) 110 - 200mm


Not all guns are listed on there (especially for the brands which go by gun series and not inner barrel length), but you can derive which cylinder you want to use based on how Tokyo Marui uses same cylinders across different guns.

Full - AK47 / AK47S / M16A1 / M16A2 / M16VN / Sig550 / G3A3 / G3A4 / G3-SG1 / Steyr AUG
1/3 - G36C / M1A1 Thompson / Sig551 / M4A1 / M4A1 RIS / M4 S-System / SR16 / XM133 / CAR15 / M733 Commando
3/5 - MC51 / G3 SAS / AK Beita Spetsnaz / MP5A4 / MP5A5 / MP5 RAS / MP5SD5 / MP5SD6 / MP5-J / P90 / P90 TR / Sig552
1/2 - MP5K / PDW
^^ The numbers I used here indicate the placement of the port on the cylinder.

If anybody else knows of any other Marui AEGs which use version 2, 3 & 6 gearbox cylinders that aren't on that list and knows which category it goes in, let me know so that I can compile it to the list.

M14 and PSG-1 cylinders are unique to their gearbox. I don't know about Famas and Uzi. Anybody know?

so for these new cylinders, I should be able to pop out my old one and drop in one of these? or do I need to change the cylinder-head/piston head to match?

oh, and when i look at systema parts, whats the deal with these "area 1000" parts? how would they differ from a regular systema part?

[sherman]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

KM TN Coated Inner Taper Cylinder for Long AEGs ( AEGS10 ) 400mm - 590mm
KM TN Coated Inner Taper Cylinder for Middle AEGs ( AEGS09 ) 200mm - 400mm
KM TN Coated Inner Taper Cylinder for Shorty AEGs ( AEGS08 ) <200mm

Do you know how these work? WGC pictures don't show the ports for the middle and shorty aegs. All you can see are markings that look like rings around the cylinder.

[Dirty Deeds]

Originally Posted by Droc

so for these new cylinders, I should be able to pop out my old one and drop in one of these? or do I need to change the cylinder-head/piston head to match?

Yes, you should be able to change JUST the cylinder, everything else will fit like it should.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Droc

so for these new cylinders, I should be able to pop out my old one and drop in one of these? or do I need to change the cylinder-head/piston head to match?

oh, and when i look at systema parts, whats the deal with these "area 1000" parts? how would they differ from a regular systema part?

Yeah, it's a direct drop-in. The bores are similar to Marui, so nothing else needs to be swapped.

Area 1000 is Systema's "budget/economical" line. The build quality and feature sets are equivalent to Guarder. Standard Systema are usually built with better materials and finished a bit nicer.

Originally Posted by sherman

Do you know how these work? WGC pictures don't show the ports for the middle and shorty aegs. All you can see are markings that look like rings around the cylinder.

Yup, I do know how they work. I have them in all four of my AEGs. Like the name says, they are "taper" cylinders... so in other words, they don't use a port for ventilation. Rather, the interior is tapered, so it acts like a funnel. The piston entrance end has a wider bore than the end with the cylinder head. Depending on whether you get the shorty, middle or long cylinder, that will indicate where the end of the taper will stop. Essentially, it acts like a funnel up until where the "port" on other cylinders would end, at which point, the bore is at full close. I find it's a much more elegant solution than porting as the surface has less drag that can be applied to the o-ring. I've also noticed in tests that these cylinders seem to be just slightly more consistent than any other cylinder.

The rings simply indicate which version of the cylinder you have in your hands.
No rings = shorty
2 rings = medium
3 rings = long

[sherman]

Oh I see. Thanks for the info

Since this thread contains some really good info, including Illusions list of cylinder to barrel matching, can it get stickied?

[Blackthorne]

I bought a gun with a stock V2 mechbox with a stock TM 1/3 ported cylinder.

The gun came with a shorter than stock barrel however.

How can I figure out what the longest tight bore barrel is I can drive with that cylinder?

Just a simple (yah right! LOL) comparison of the volume of the barrel to the volume of the cylinder using the math in the last few pages?

[The Saint]

Would this help? http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=...andbarrels.htm I don't think tightbore differs enough from stock barrel's bore to warrant separate considerations.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Would this help? http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=...andbarrels.htm I don't think tightbore differs enough from stock barrel's bore to warrant separate considerations.

Well..according to that, I need an un-ported cylinder for a 509mm barrel.


SO I guess I just cover the port and I'm good to go...!

Thanks for the link Saint!

[ILLusion]

I don't recommend port covering. The inside cylinder wall around the port still leaves an open gap that allows air to escape around the o-ring as it passes though. It will be inefficient, and your performance will have a blip in it due to that gap.

With the cylinder you have now, you can put up to a 410mm inner barrel.

[Renegade)]

Upgrading the cylinder is more then worth it, I put a AK length(455mm) tightbore in my M4A1 and had a few shots with it before I got my hands on a M16 Type 0 cylinder, sure it shot nice, straight, ect. But after putting that cylinder in, I was amazed at the difference in overall sound performance from the gun, but the range boost, accuracy and most of all, shot consistancy. It is a worthwhile upgrade for the long run, with a longer then stock barrel.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

I don't recommend port covering. The inside cylinder wall around the port still leaves an open gap that allows air to escape around the o-ring as it passes though. It will be inefficient, and your performance will have a blip in it due to that gap.

With the cylinder you have now, you can put up to a 410mm inner barrel.

Originally Posted by Renegade)

Upgrading the cylinder is more then worth it, I put a AK length(455mm) tightbore in my M4A1 and had a few shots with it before I got my hands on a M16 Type 0 cylinder, sure it shot nice, straight, ect. But after putting that cylinder in, I was amazed at the difference in overall sound performance from the gun, but the range boost, accuracy and most of all, shot consistancy. It is a worthwhile upgrade for the long run, with a longer then stock barrel.

Thanks guys. Great advice. I didn't realize how economical a new cylinder is.

I went with a Guarder non ported, a Prometheus 509mm 6.03 tightbore, and a Systema silent piston set. (Also upgraded the nozzle and tappet)