Anyone still use standard mags?

[TokyoSeven]

I use a DMR rifle myself and its fixed to fire in semi only and I find that a 0.3g BB traveling at 307fps has sufficient energy to punch through pretty much anything on any of my local fields. For an average load out I only carry 6-10 TM 68rnd magazines. I used to carry 18-24 but for the amount I carried I never used them all in a full days play, plus it was a pain to carry a full dump pouch full of empties. Now I carry a reduced load and usually have to reload my 6-8 mags at least once or twice during a 8-10 hour days play.

[Drake]

Locaps and realcaps, except for my AKs right now (mids) because no f'n company makes AK74 locaps (so I'll have to change to G&Ps and cap them).

Even my 249 is gonna be getting some custom-build realcaps.

[deep in the bush]

I'm going to invent a 10 000 round mag now Kal.

Just to piss you off even more.

God I need a life.

[Slade]

Originally Posted by deep in the bush

I'm going to invent a 10 000 round mag now Kal.

I'll take 5.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by deep in the bush

I'm going to invent a 10 000 round mag now Kal.

Just to piss you off even more.

God I need a life.

As long as it's attached to an MG I don't care. Throw it on an MP5 and pretend you're a support gunner.. then I might have something to say lol

[TCLP]

I use 7 lowcaps. And haven't used full auto in about two years.
At our team practices full auto is also not allowed.

But the use of 20 mids and 3 highcaps amounts to I think is three things:

Lack of experience
BB weight
Sight Usage

Lack of experience:
When someone on the field can't even adjust there hop up properly, or when after you've told someone 4 times not to mount a sling on the barrel release of a M249 and then lose their hop up rubber when they do it. They're the type of people that should probably go back to doing something safer like eating crayons and not airsofting.

Then there are those that go I hate running empty. Ever heard of buying a pistol mag pouch and a couple speed loaders and bring them onto the field. Reload at respawn. Cost for this after shipping about $30 for good loaders and pouch.

Now most will say ok but I only use mid caps cause I don't like the rattle or winding so I'm lighter than a metal lowcap. The answer PMag's. Lighter than metal hold less bb's and overall weight lower when filled then a filled mid cap. And with only 7 of these compared to the 12 or 13 mid caps adds to better mobility as it is lighter and requires fewer pouches.

BB Weight:
I use .28g bb's why because I need fewer to pop through heavy brush. Two years ago I bought a cansoft m4 when they first came out. With .28's I was snapping twigs and branches larger than a 1/4" thick. And thats stock internals.

Now you say that .28's are to expensive. Okay well what I can do in heavy brush with 3-4 bb's requires someone with .20's to do with 10-12 I'm actually spending less.
The Bent Barrel sells 1kg bags of bb's for $30
.20's = 5000bb's aprox
.28's = 2750bb's aprox
So its about half as many bb's. But if I shoot 4 times and you shoot 12 times your shooting 3 times as much as I am. Meaning your spending more on ammo.

This also leads to the point of if your shooting more than me then your also reloading more than me, meaning your odds of being pegged while reloading go up.

Lastly Sight Usage:
Now this I think is the real big one. How many people do you see with scopes, red dots and Irons running and gunning but looking at the trail the bb's make? This I see all the time. It makes me laugh and go wow whats the point of having that stuff on there.

Once the hop up is set I set my irons, then I set my red dot. After that where my dot is is where my bb goes so it very easy to shoot and I don't have to fire 3 or 4 bb's just to get a reference to where my bb's are going. And reducing my odds of having my position compromised.

If you don't have a tool to adjust something there is always somebody that is more than willing to lend a hand or a tool to help you out.

[Brayden]

.

Originally Posted by kalnaren

Full auto is for supressing.. semi or short burst is normal. No offense, but if the people you play with hunker down when someone is shooting at them in semi you're playing with a bunch of pussies. Next time someone starts "supressing" you on semi, switch over to full auto and rush them. See how that works out.

maybe this is just my circumstance but semi seems to work fine because if they pop thier bodyout they get hit by the bb?

If you're adapting tactics to a special field situation, it's an exception. Mass coverage by dense brush that only full auto bursts get through is hardly normal on most airsoft fields. Oh ok

While I appreciate you're trying to offer your opinion, you're kinda off base. That's not what happens when you do a skirmish with 10-15 people. By your own admisison you haven't played games with large numbers of players (I'm talking 20+). This is a trend I've noticed in games over the past year or two.

yep that's my inexperience.

Also, assuming by the comments you're making, you actually don't fall into the "using AEG's as support weapons" group I'm bitching about.

no I don't think any of my friends do as we wouldn't want to waste money for something so unfun.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying I'm sick of the "everyone has a machinegun" playing mentality that highcaps inevitably lead too.

I don't like anyone spraying really either but using a highcap wasn't a problem for anyone i've known, taking note people I know don't own more then 1 highcap per gun. I find the assult and sub shouldn;t be used as support though.

I called bullshit on the argument that you need midcaps because BB's aren't equivalent to bullets because it's exactly that -bullshit. Airsoft guns have an effective engagement range, and effective situations, just like real guns.. and the "BB's aren't equivalent to real bullets" argument generally stems from people using airsoft guns outside their effective range or trying to blow through shit a BB generally won't go through. What I'm saying is that people should move to somewhere their gun IS effective rather than just try and brute force through something hoping to get a lucky shot.

Thats where my point is made, airsoft is a sport of realism and to engage from a distance you need more bbs than you would bullets. Now obviously our guns shoot no where near as far or accurate but we try to put it to scale and its very hard to do that if you run a low mags, its a fact that you need mroe bbs to make the game more realistic. How many bbs = a bullet is the argument ,which i really don't know but I do know that trying to use realcaps etc will not make the games more fun or real. I don;t think anyone running 100roundish midcaps is going to be bruteforcing.

Personally, I don't run realcaps in my SL9. I use standard mags (50 rounds). I'm not a huge fan of realcaps in skirmishes because I think they go too far the other direction.. but in the same vane, 50 round magazines still limit your ammunition enough that you have to mind your tactics and the use of your gun or risk running dry.

Frankly, if people used hicaps or a shitload of midcaps and didn't play like they had unlimited ammo I wouldn't have an issue. The problem is that I'm finiding people do play like they have unlimited ammo, so they don't bother trying to actually play... games degrade into 'whoever can fling the most BB's at the other team'. Frankly, it's boring.

I agree with this though.

[deep in the bush]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

As long as it's attached to an MG I don't care. Throw it on an MP5 and pretend you're a support gunner.. then I might have something to say lol

How about a MP7? or better a Mac10 .....bwahahahaa!!!!!!

or a pistol?

[kalnaren]

maybe this is just my circumstance but semi seems to work fine because if they pop thier bodyout they get hit by the bb?

Sure, if you pop up without moving.

Thats where my point is made, airsoft is a sport of realism and to engage from a distance you need more bbs than you would bullets. Now obviously our guns shoot no where near as far or accurate but we try to put it to scale and its very hard to do that if you run a low mags, its a fact that you need mroe bbs to make the game more realistic. How many bbs = a bullet is the argument ,which i really don't know but I do know that trying to use realcaps etc will not make the games more fun or real. I don;t think anyone running 100roundish midcaps is going to be bruteforcing.

This is funny.. you go on about realism (last time I checked, airsoft guns didn't range 300 yards), and yet you use hicaps? Meh, I don't care really. I just think the argument is BS.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by deep in the bush

How about a MP7? or better a Mac10 .....bwahahahaa!!!!!!

or a pistol?

I'll let you use it in a Mac10 if you can find a way to gangsta-fire a gas gun

(I'm watching Hard Boiled at the moment LOL)

[Kuro_Neko]

Realcap all the way here, all three of my weapons, I even realcap my pistol mags. I have one emergency hicap for each weapon on the off chance I need it, but I never have, except for loans to people. Hicap users, especially multi-hicap users drive me crazy, but I don't have any real problems with lows or mids.

[DarkAngel]

youll notice at zeon's last game 130+ players that the firefights inevitably ended up in bunker shootouts. Youll also note in the video posted of it, Myself and a few of the vets were yellin out to get these guys to unplant their asses and move. "Theres 18 of us, and 6 of them... MOVE IN FFS."

Dude if i can climb up that damn cliff with NO Primary and NO secondary with NOTHING but a knife in full kit and singlehandedly knife everyone on that hill and by myself take that hill an have to go back to the edge and yell out that I have taken the hill and get your pansie asses up the hill and move in, then there is something wrong. Coachster and a few other Snowdragons can vouch for this, he saw the whole damn thing from set-up to execution.

While i dont really care what capacity people use Kal (as I beleive its personal preference). What really boggles my mind is how everyone ends up planting their asses behind a dirt mound trying to do shootouts with people out of range.

Airsoft is about "Playing soldier." If you spend hundreds of dollars in kit (half of which is useless in airsoft) to look like a soldier, put a pair of balls behind your gun and act like a soldier. Aggression is key in combat Whomever determines the pace of the fight is ultimately the victor. This doesnt only apply to CQB, but outdoor combat as well. You cant have all 50 people on one team play DMRs, and especially with all the new guys, I see pretty much 95% of them doing just that.

I would estimate about 90% of my clients who are new players, and their first "real" gun (by real i mean high quality, upgraded and not a beater clone) is an armalite varient with m16 length barrel, tightbore, bipod, rifle scope etc).

Mag capacity has nothing to do with this I think Kal, its just the attitude, lack of experience and lack of training. While im not saying anything against DMR's, as I own 2 DMR Rifles myself, You just cant have an entire team of DMRs which is ultimately what it boils down to.

[kalnaren]

@DarkAngel

Good points. I find myself wondering though if highcaps aggravate the issue, because they enable that bunker down type of gameplay.

[DarkAngel]

No. I dont think so at all. In fact I find that the majority of the bunker newbs use low and midcaps (due to the high cap shunning from vets). Most of these players tend to be people with alot of money to spend on airsoft, with little experience.

The hicap newbs (while they have more ammo (and tend to be players with cheaper clones due to funds restrictions)) I find have a different pattern. Their first game they will try to shoot out, find that their gun does not have the range of real guns (ie counterstrike point and shoot with no gravity or wind). Then they either try to upgrade their guns to 400fps (to the maximum allowed fps) or they learn to move up. Those who have the dough, ultimately blow it on upgrading their rifle (due to frustrations of not being able to point and click) and the others who dont, tend to learn how to use their gun properly and move up.

Mag capacity pattern for people to get low caps tends to either be
1) they were introduced and play games with vets who tell them from the beginning to lose the ball ticklers (highcaps)
2) they have too much money from the start and get the whole full out desert combat loadout (CIRAS, helmet, rucksacks etc etc etc) and need mags to fill all the empty pouches in their CIRAS
3) they have built up their kit over time (which is how most of the vets did it).

While there is no right and wrong way to obtain lowcaps, im just explaining the patterns I see.
People who spend that kind of money up front with no experience and time will try to make up for their inexperience with kit. This will not increase their skills, but rather the weight they carry. Thats why you see soo many new players running Full CIRAS Setups with helmets, go bags, 3 day packs etc for short and light skirmishes. Most of the vets will lose all that over time.

Pattern tends to be
1) lose the pack
2) lose the helmet
3) sell the CIRAS and get a different and lighter custom rig.

I myself, when I was a new player went through similar patterns. And while I still own my Cadpat TW CIRAS, youll often see me rockin my lighter webbing or sniper kit.

[Kokanee]

Kalnaren, this problem is easily addressed at the game admin level with a "ammo cap/limit". At games in Ottawa for the LZ, it's usually 300 rounds. Only having that amount of ammo seems to work great for training the "m4 support gunners" you're talking about to start using tactics and only shoot when they can hit their target etc.

If the game admins in your area won't enact ammo limits, attend games with others who will.