WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

[Animalmother]

Originally Posted by e-luder

The piston head is what seals air in for the blowback operation to occur. It "traps" the air in loading muzzle once the floating valve is closed thereby creating the rearward slide stroke.

Thus, if you have a bad piston head that cannot seal properly, you will get a poor blowback power. If it's REALLY REALLY bad, your slide will travel like....halfway or something. If SUPER DUPER BAD, your gun will just vent out all the gas.

THe "cheapest" metal slide you can get is in terms of quality and price are the 5KU ones. Be warned though. THey are realllly not that great. Horrible even...

I wouldn't be surprised to see the angel mot sealing as well as the stock Marui one.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by Animalmother

I wouldn't be surprised to see the angel mot sealing as well as the stock Marui one.

If it does what it's supposed to, it should seal better than the stock Marui one.

The holes on the body(?) of that contraption allows air to flow BENEATH the rubber o-ring (but thot through the body. That would be useless).

When this happens the o-ring will expand and create that so called "perfect" seal. The downfall of this set-up is that if that o-ring is not a very strong one, it will snap and break off.

Alot of the NineBall DYNA piston heads have this issue....

Also, I didn't know that hi-capa/M9 and Glock piston heads were cross-compatible.
I thought they had different sizes. The only cross compatible ones I knew of were the hi-capa/P226 ones.
Interesting...

[MikeMcNair]

Originally Posted by e-luder

While this statement is true, I will have to politely disagree...but by a little.A smidgen even

Fair: I am all ears

THere are many AIRSOFT slides on the market that do not touch the frame at the point you specified and still have a crappy action once mounted.

All too true!!

There are two major causes that I found that is almost present in most Glocks that I've worked on:

1). The bump on the blowback unit- This little bump is the source of the majority of the friction felt by the operator when he/she complains of their action woes.

This bump tends to be too proud and will hit the hammer bearing during normal operation infringing a "smooth" slide action.

This is further exasterbated by the fact that the STOCK recoil spring is not powerful enough to pull the slide to gather enough velocity for the bump to hump over that hammer bearing (i think it's part 50 on the KJW diagram)

As a result, the slide remains open if the case in question is severe.

A perfect example of this is the recent GunsModify Aluminum LightWeight Blowback unit. The ones that I received had the bump so proud that the gun will not travel fluently. In fact, I had to file material away from the hammer housing where the firing pin disconnector is AND the hammer. Crazy!

YES YES YES. i feel you here, and have not so much filed, as i have rounded and polished said hump, to allow a rolling effect over this, causing the cycling to be smoother. I have not seen it as bad as it sounds you have, so egad! more power to you my friend!

2). The other problem is because of the design on the slide rails itself. It's not a continuant guide rail like the P226's front guide rail, which is longer, for example. This causes all kinds of issues once the gun is taken apart for say...cleaning. and put back together.

A perfect example of this is the Guarder Frames. When every nut and bolt is installed, the front rail dips down causing an uneven plain for the slide to glide on. It's stupid really. lol.

At that point, it doesn't matter how much you file the underside of that slide. It WILL hit the frame regardless.

yup, and this contact point can be polished and help smooth the action, that is all i was suggesting.

Because it's a two piece rail system, at some point they will mis-align. Especially if the front screw post breaks and front portion is not bolted to the frame properly.

Ut-Oh.... i have to disagree a smidgen here, in a friendly manner of course...
While this is absolute truth (two rails, tough to align, etc) it is also true that you CAN get them to line up VERY well, and when placing a streight edge on them, make them true. it does take some time, but it is not impossible, and i must admit it is another of the hobby's challenges i like.

Ideally, to eliminate this issue, you want a slide guide rail system that runs in ONE continuous rail. For example, like ILLusion Kinectics' system for the 2011/1911s.

that would be fantastic, yet not possible as i see it. let's make one!!!

Filing the "inner groove" on the slide can cause a potential for a wobbly slide. It's suppose to "hug" those guide rails as close as it can without infringing the action of the slide (that sounds...contradictory. lol.)

ahhhh, thus my "put it in a vice" statement. sounds nuts, but 1mm here and .5mm there can make the "hugging" better, and the polished bits come together nicely. this eliminates said wobble in my practice, not increases it. there are other ways to achieve what we are both writing about, i simply find this fast and easy. let it be said that if anyone tries this it is ALSO EASY TO MESS UP, so be careful you don't squish the slide like a grape, rendering it useless. that would suck! lol

But yes. I still do agree with you though...

thank you sir, and i you. seems as if we have both enjoyed the Marui G-series a little too much. that does not make us bad!! :P

One last thing i would like to discuss: Graphite lubrication, well, lubrication in general.

there are 3 basic and useful ways to lubricate, some of which i carry over from working on watches. (horology is the trade, to the layman it is "watchmaker") i digress.....

so, lubrication #1: wet. as in, liquid, as in, silicone, 3 in 1 oil, superlube, and a million others i don't feel like typing.

this is the most common, and often highly misused. it is however a simple concept: apply, let sit, wipe clean so nothing comes out during use.

if done right, this can increase life and decrease wear of just about anything from RC Cars to watches, to real steel etc.

Lubrication #2: DRY. as mentioned above, a fine graphite powder is often used to lubricate metals. it is fantastic, yet often misunderstood. this powder was designed (and is still marketed as a key hole lubricant (read: lock cylinder on your car door, home door, etc) and is meant to stay dry after application. its very nature is to have a static electric bond to moving and non moving metal parts of all grades, and therefore should remain in place once the excess has "fallen" off. after working in the industry for 2.5 yrs, this lubrication (the graphite, in case i'm losing anyone by being wordy) has really become popular and is very efficient. i must say that mixing it with an application agent (read: binder) and applying is counter intuitive however. this will cause it to become a paste as mentioned, and that is not its intended use. a polishing rouge would be better suited in this instance IMHO.

Lubrication #3 wax-based: this is perhaps one of my favorites. its quite ingenious actually. originally designed for racing bicycle chains, this is a liquid that is applied, laid to rest, then cleaned off. the liquid leaves the surface (with COLD WATER and MILD hand soap) and what is left is a microscopic layer of WAX. yup, plain old WAX. (commonly used on, say, a Rolex metal bracelet to ensure smooth, squeak free movement of the links. i have used this for a million things, and i find it works wonders on polished, brushed, and bare metal to metal surfaces.) it also lasts a long time, and leaves no byproduct to release during use. they label it as "self cleaning" as well, although i don't see this in execution.

Pictured below are just a few of the ingredients i use, i hope this is helpful to someone.....

[kar120c]

Ok, I'll begin my polishing process...but I can't understand is polishing the inner of the Outer barrel my be useful.

I want to polish every worn by contact parts; slide grooves, chassis, trigger bar. Is the Dremel red compund good for this?
As soon I'll buy the graphite lubricant for the hammer parts.

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair

Polishing can be very easy, and fast to do.

creativity goes a long way when you don't have access to certain tools. Perfect example: using the rubber "drum sander" bit from a dremmel shown below, you can use the rubber to hold the inside of, say, an outer barrel, and polish it in 30 seconds with a power drill.



basically, you slide this in the barrel, and tighten the top screw, causing the rubber to get squeezed in between the top and bottom washers, making it spread outward and therefore gripping the inside of the outer barrel. then, put it in a drill chuck, grab some 1000 grit sand paper, and squeeze the drills trigger while holding the paper around the barrel.

i will show you a silly picture of this crude idea shortly.

also, please read this, i think it will be helpful :

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...%2C+mikemcnair

also, to get a MATTE finish on a slide, the easiest thing is Tamiya flat clear, and it's easily found, and it's cheap. Plus, it works REALLY well, holds up well, and is HARD to mess up. just dust a few coats, and BAM, perfect matte finish.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/produc...lear/index.htm



***just make sure the cap is indeed more opaque, as there are different versions of this***

i am sure someone will chime in saying to use "DullCoat" or "DullKote" (i forget how to spell it) and i will tel you it is a product NOT for the "short attention spanned" among us.

i have used it, and i HATED it. that is my OPINION. it was terribly unforgiving, and it took an EON to dry properly. i do a lot of work on watches, and to matte a dial of a watch (or slide, or car part, etc) i stick to my Tamiya!!


EDIT:

as promised, simple, yet crude, way to polish a barrel (for instance)....

[MikeMcNair]

im sorry if i was unclear:

in the pic with the outer barrel in the drill; look closely, if you pulled the trigger the whole unit would spin, so you can polish the OUTSIDE of the barrel.

the inside of the barrel is held by the dremmel sanding drum (think of it as a plug per se.)

this was simply an example of using things around the house to get a job done quickly. (a makeshift lathe sotra :P )

if that still does not make sense, i will make a video.


I do have a Q for E-Luder:

Have you found a way to make the inner barrel NOT rattle against the outer barrel on these? In KSC/KWA world you can use O-Rings and it's a nice feature. i have yet to rid my current G26 of this last rattle, and it drives me nuts.

thank you in advance for your thoughts.

-Michael

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair

im sorry if i was unclear:

in the pic with the outer barrel in the drill; look closely, if you pulled the trigger the whole unit would spin, so you can polish the OUTSIDE of the barrel.

the inside of the barrel is held by the dremmel sanding drum (think of it as a plug per se.)

this was simply an example of using things around the house to get a job done quickly. (a makeshift lathe sotra :P )

if that still does not make sense, i will make a video.


I do have a Q for E-Luder:

Have you found a way to make the inner barrel NOT rattle against the outer barrel on these? In KSC/KWA world you can use O-Rings and it's a nice feature. i have yet to rid my current G26 of this last rattle, and it drives me nuts.

thank you in advance for your thoughts.

-Michael

The easiest way to eliminate the barrel roll is just simply wrap your inner barrel in some electrical tape. That's been the staple for years. lol.

It's hard for me to find o-rings that fit properly.

...and electrical is much more "modifiable" than an o-ring. That is, you can add or take away as much as you need. Whereas an o-ring doesn't share the same modularity.

...and and....It's cheap!!! (In every sense of the word.)

That's what I normally do.

[MikeMcNair]

edited and posted a few posts down..........

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair

thank you sir, and i you. seems as if we have both enjoyed the Marui G-series a little too much. that does not make us bad!! :P

One last thing i would like to discuss: Graphite lubrication, well, lubrication in general.

there are 3 basic and useful ways to lubricate, some of which i carry over from working on watches. (horology is the trade, to the layman it is "watchmaker") i digress.....

so, lubrication #1: wet. as in, liquid, as in, silicone, 3 in 1 oil, superlube, and a million others i don't feel like typing.

this is the most common, and often highly misused. it is however a simple concept: apply, let sit, wipe clean so nothing comes out during use.

if done right, this can increase life and decrease wear of just about anything from RC Cars to watches, to real steel etc.

Lubrication #2: DRY. as mentioned above, a fine graphite powder is often used to lubricate metals. it is fantastic, yet often misunderstood. this powder was designed (and is still marketed as a key hole lubricant (read: lock cylinder on your car door, home door, etc) and is meant to stay dry after application. its very nature is to have a static electric bond to moving and non moving metal parts of all grades, and therefore should remain in place once the excess has "fallen" off. after working in the industry for 2.5 yrs, this lubrication (the graphite, in case i'm losing anyone by being wordy) has really become popular and is very efficient. i must say that mixing it with an application agent (read: binder) and applying is counter intuitive however. this will cause it to become a paste as mentioned, and that is not its intended use. a polishing rouge would be better suited in this instance IMHO.

Lubrication #3 wax-based: this is perhaps one of my favorites. its quite ingenious actually. originally designed for racing bicycle chains, this is a liquid that is applied, laid to rest, then cleaned off. the liquid leaves the surface (with COLD WATER and MILD hand soap) and what is left is a microscopic layer of WAX. yup, plain old WAX. (commonly used on, say, a Rolex metal bracelet to ensure smooth, squeak free movement of the links. i have used this for a million things, and i find it works wonders on polished, brushed, and bare metal to metal surfaces.) it also lasts a long time, and leaves no byproduct to release during use. they label it as "self cleaning" as well, although i don't see this in execution.

Pictured below are just a few of the ingredients i use, i hope this is helpful to someone.....

It makes uss.....

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by kar120c

Ok, I'll begin my polishing process...but I can't understand is polishing the inner of the Outer barrel my be useful.

I want to polish every worn by contact parts; slide grooves, chassis, trigger bar. Is the Dremel red compund good for this?
As soon I'll buy the graphite lubricant for the hammer parts.

Just to be clear...
"polishing" and "filing/sanding" have different conotations.

Although they undergo the same process essentially, they effects that you are trying to achieve is different.

Polishing simply means (to me) smoothening out parts.
Sanding/filing means REMOVING material to fit things into place.

I was confused by what you were trying to achieve based on your wordings on the previous post but now I know.

You don't really need to polish the inner side of the barrel. Mainly because you have an inner barrel for the barrel to ride along.

I don't even think there are many people (if any at all) would polish their real steel barrel anyways. It will screw up the rifling inside.

To me you shouldn't be using a dremmel at all.
Other than using it for how MikeNair said to use it, it will not do you any favors.

Good Old needle files and your own sweat and arthritis provoking hard work will get you a more precise result.

A dremmel is ruthless on pot-metal. Plus it's very hard to control...

[kar120c]

Originally Posted by e-luder

Just to be clear...
"polishing" and "filing/sanding" have different conotations.

Although they undergo the same process essentially, they effects that you are trying to achieve is different.

Polishing simply means (to me) smoothening out parts.
Sanding/filing means REMOVING material to fit things into place.

I only want to polish mirror like, all metal parts to reduce friction, not removing material

I was confused by what you were trying to achieve based on your wordings on the previous post but now I know.

You don't really need to polish the inner side of the barrel. Mainly because you have an inner barrel for the barrel to ride along.

I misinterpreted the MikeMcnair post

I don't even think there are many people (if any at all) would polish their real steel barrel anyways. It will screw up the rifling inside.

To me you shouldn't be using a dremmel at all.
Other than using it for how MikeNair said to use it, it will not do you any favors.

Dremel used with soft wheel and "red Compund" only for polishing

Good Old needle files and your own sweat and arthritis provoking hard work will get you a more precise result.

A dremmel is ruthless on pot-metal. Plus it's very hard to control...

.

[kar120c]

I misinterpreted your pic, sorry

Im sorry if i was unclear:

in the pic with the outer barrel in the drill; look closely, if you pulled the trigger the whole unit would spin, so you can polish the OUTSIDE of the barrel.

the inside of the barrel is held by the dremmel sanding drum (think of it as a plug per se.)

this was simply an example of using things around the house to get a job done quickly. (a makeshift lathe sotra :P )

if that still does not make sense, i will make a video.


I do have a Q for E-Luder:

Have you found a way to make the inner barrel NOT rattle against the outer barrel on these? In KSC/KWA world you can use O-Rings and it's a nice feature. i have yet to rid my current G26 of this last rattle, and it drives me nuts.

thank you in advance for your thoughts.

-Michael[/quote]

[kar120c]

MikeMcNair,

may you suggest a solution for other issues I have with my KJW G27?

I have 2 Kjw mags and 1 Marui mag.
With KJW the pistol works well but the first shots cause gas vent from the back of the pistol. I tried to upgrade the rubber nozzles of the mag with the "purple" ones (I don't remember the brand) but is the first times all worked well but after a while the issue come back.

Using the Marui mag I have striking failure if I insert the mag with the slide closed, but if I insert it with the slide opened all works perfeclty, no vent and mopre power than with kjw mags.

I think something prevents the magazine to fit higher

My set up is this

KJW G27 OD green
Guarder recoil and hammer springs
Guarder steel recoil rod
Guarder steel magazine catch
Guarder front and rear sights
Safety trigger (Kjw dosn't have it due to copyright issues)
Guarder and Shooter design Valve knockers, but I can't get work none of them

[MikeMcNair]

can you post an image of the magazines lined up next to each other showing their "catch" points?

also, can you post an image of the mag catch removed from the frame please.

i feel this is where your issue lies. E-Luder posted a "coke can" shim method in this thread somewhere (just search the thread).

i personally have used each and every mag seal i could find, and frankly i HATED every one!!! the ONLY ones that have been consistent for me are the STOCK TM/KJW ones. i am unsure why.

it sounds crazy, but they have been perfect for me, and NO OTHERS have worked more than a short time.

please keep in mind, i have built all of my non KSC/KWA glocks from a combination of parts from TM and KJW, so i am very confident in their "interchangeability" with close regard to magazines, slides, BBH, trigger mech, etc.

the fact that the gun shows issues when a mag is inserted with slide in battery, and no issue when slide is locked back, would also lead me to request pictures of the inside of the assembled slide. instinct says the nozzle is too far forward in battery, and perhaps the BBH is causing that. it is really hard to diagnose things without holding them in hand as i am sure you can imagine.

how is the BBH seated in the slide? is it stable, solid, flat?

does the BBH rattle around at ALL, or is the rear site holding it well?

also, here is what i am looking for. in the following pics you will see 2 mag catch's, one is newer, one shows more wear. these were taken out of a KJW and a TM frame (i have both sitting RIGHT HERE). this is what i am looking for from you please.

please note: the KJW mag is currently in my TM frame, and the mag baseplate from the KJ is on the TM as well. in other words, i have everything mixed up on purpose.

[apilar]

@kar120c with regard to your gun not firing when the magazine is inserted before the slide is cycled, leads me to think that it is possible that your new firing pin (knocker) is 'over sized'

I usually have this problem on my 1911's (just getting into a glock now)... but with new 'upgraded'/steel knockers they are frequently too large so they can be custom fit.

The knocker - due to over sizing - may be getting caught on the magazine valve. That is why when you insert the magazine, the valve pushes up on the knocker and even when you cycle the slide there is too much upward pressure on the knocker to have it retract. Also could explain why it DOES shoot when you cycle the slide first (retracting the knocker) and then inserting the magazine since it will sit behind the knocker and not get caught on top as you insert the mag.

The problem may also persist on TM mags and not KJW mags just due to their size difference... it could be as little as a few millimetres (clones arn't always perfect)

[MikeMcNair]

Apilar,

excellent point indeed! i must admit though, i have not run into a single issue with a single valve knocker one of these yet. i am in no way discounting the idea, simply sharing my experience.

E-Luder & everyone:

i posted this above, but fear it was missed, so i'm posting lower, down here lol...


E-Luder:

thank you! i was clearly over-thinking the innerbarrel/outerbarrel rattle. leave it to me....

now that i am thinking of questions you may be able to help with, i have a few more for you if you don't mind.

1) are you able to VISIBLY IDENTIFY the difference between a stock and (let's just say) a GUARDER recoil or hammer spring? i ask because i have about 6 or so springs that i am unsure of the manufacturer of. some examples are below.

perhaps there is a test to see the tension? perhaps color or length (although almost all identical, i can see some SLIGHT variation, it could also be my aging eyes...)

2) have you ever found doubling up a recoil spring to be beneficial? this is simply out of curiosity.

3) have you ever fitted an aluminum BBH and consequent Piston Head from a G17 into the smaller G26 counterpart? this is something i have always pondered.

i appreciate this thread, and your efforts tremendously!

-Michael

2 photos with slightly different lighting to see if there is a discernible difference in these springs........