[WE] G39C - H&K G36C for normal people

[snipersyntagmatik]

Originally Posted by snipersyntagmatik

take apart your charging handle. it's quite weak ... there is no way the handle will NOT break in time. it should be steel. these are not real firearms.

update--

Since the original cocking handle snapped off (which is made of crappy plastic and given the amount of stress this part will go through during action, should have been made of steel to begin with) I've been able to acquire a real steel cocking handle assembly that was parted out from a H&K SL-8. Contrary to what other thread replies have said, the RS cocking handle is NOT made out of polymer/plastic/reinforced crap - it is made of steel. However the retaining clip, internal spring and carriage pin are different. Some minor modification was required to incorporate the RS cocking handle to the WE 39 bolt assembly --- all in all, the original plastic retaining clip and spring were used again as the RS parts do not fit.

The cocking handle now functions like a charm. The spring back ability of the handle to jump back into place requires re-placing though as I had to re-incorporate the original retaining clip. A small pitfall to a more-rigid and virtually more robust charging assembly.

Further --- I now see that UNcompany now retails a replacement cocking handle made of aluminum ... which further leads me to believe that this part should never have been made of plastic to begin with.

[jordan7831]

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry for bringing up an older thread but I refuse to make a new topic for one question.

For this gun, what (brand of) grease would the OP or any owners recommend for the bolt? Would white lithium work?

[Ninja_En_Short]

Nope, don't use that there.
For trigger system use regular liquid mecanical oil, for the bolt carrier you can put either that or silicon based and nozzle use just silicon.

That's it.

[jordan7831]

Would this permatex super lube as seen in this thread work on the bolt carrier?
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=104159

Sorry for the noobish questions this is my first GBBR and I want to do everything right!
I appreciate your input Ninja

[Ninja_En_Short]

I would prefer something in spray or fully liquid rather than some paste.

Go at Canadian tire they will have some lubricant for mechanical parts. I use the "Liquid Wrench" never had an issue with it.

[jordan7831]

Thanks I'll look into the liquid wrench. My concern is that because the rails the bolt rides on are made from plastic im being extra cautious in what is used. I don't want anything that may degrade the rails integrity.

So the ultra slick should be fine even though it contains "petroleum oils" since it states it is safe for plastics.

Thanks again!

[jomor]

Firstly thanks to all you guys for all the great info! I was looking at buying the full length version of the WE36 and I think I will go ahead with it.
I do have to argue that I think Well makes worse mags than WE. I have 8 mags for two different Well guns and they all leak...everyone of them. Never ever buy Well!!!

[Ninja_En_Short]

That's not exactly news but WE G36 still have a weird and very inefficient structure due to very thin rubber seals.
The gun also uses an adapted version of the M4 trigger system with an extra rod pushed by the bolt carrier but that rod is made of pot metal and causes the trigger to because non responsive rather quickly. It should have been made in stainless steel but WE still has a long way to go quality wise...

That's why I'd like to see the G36 GBBR of SRC which will use a copy of the real trigger system (AR180-like).

[sortie39]

nice review!

[kullwarrior]

Does anyone have problem with their G36 on full auto?
Mine fires prefectly fine on semi-auto however on auto it sometimes fire first round straight and thru, second one drops to ground after 20 ft, and 3rd sound to dribble out, after that the gun stops firing.
On other times the gun seem to be single shot on auto like if you remove the auto sear actuator bar. However, when I did a cock-n-click it work fine.
Really curious if anyone got solutions.

[5kull]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Americans would never use a plastic gun

That's funny cause I remember when the Canadian forces were testing to replace the FN C1, made with metal and wood. Nobody wanted the M16 because it was mostly alloys and plastic. Everyone taught it was a cheap, underpowered and not very precise gun that was to easily jammed. If you remember the US had the same problem when they replaced the M14 with the M16.

Take care.

[Basic-Wedge]

My sincere thanks to everyone who's contributed their user's experiences to this thread.

My own WE G39K should be delivered within a matter of days.

Thanks to the insights gained here, I've made extensive preparations for my gun's arrival: I've acquired a WE IdZ stock and top rail set from Bent Barrel Gun Doctor in Alberta, an RA Tech NPAS kit from Airsoft Parts Canada, and a quantity of spare magazines. I also have a NeBula CNC'd aluminum charging handle on it's way from Tokyo Model Company in Hong Kong, and a replacement HK serial number plate coming from a custom manufacturer in England.

Beyond what I've learned, I still have a few questions:

- I've seen several videos on YouTube showing NPAS valves after installation in a G39 nozzle assembly, but I cannot find any information about installing the NPAS in the first place. Has anyone seen instructions for performing this modification, or is it just such a simple process nobody has bothered to detail it? From what I understand, at least one of the factory parts requires modification. If anyone has an answer for that, I'd be grateful to hear it.

In terms of lubricants for the trigger group and the exterior of the bolt carrier, what do you think of using Breakfree CLP? It's a synthetic lubricant I've always used with great effect in my real steel firearms. I'll be sure to use a lithium molybdenum disulfide grease on the parts with rubber seals. Sound good?

I already have an Ares electric blow back G36, but these G39's are a whole other ballgame! In return for the information I've obtained here, allow me to share a few links useful to any G39 owner:

- Evike sells complete WE factory nozzle assemblies, which include part numbers 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, 18, 122. For $28, this is a must have spare part set. http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_i...ducts_id=35232 Be warned, though, they also sell a factory upgraded unit intended to boost velocity up to 500 fps. Clearly, that would not be appropriate for use in Canada, where field limits tend to be more conservative.

- Airsoft Buddy offers an extensive selection of individual replacement parts for the WE G39. Follow this link for details: http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ecat.php?cPath=71 Of interest to me are the replacement magazine shells and base plates. The OEM parts strike me as being quite brittle, and having a good supply of spares on-hand seems prudent.

- The exploded view of the G39, along with the parts list, can be found in the user's manual, but here's an online version you may wish to bookmark: http://www.weairsoft.com/detail_download.php?d_id=10

Does anyone else have useful links they might want to share with the group?

I'm really quite excited about getting my G39K. From using my Ares AEG, I've gained a tremendous appreciation for the platform, and look forward to learning all about gas guns. Here's an photo of my Ares G36C to give you an idea of what I hope to do with my GBBR:



I should mention, adding the Elcan greatly enhanced the functionality of my rifle. I was using an Aimpoint, but find having a bit of magnification to be much more useful than a red dot. Zeiss, in Germany, made a very similar looking scope for the Bundeswehr's IdZ project, and I'm keeping an eye out for an airsoft replica of that. Until then, the Elcan works for me. I sure wish I'd had it when I played in the vast expanses at Claybank last spring!

[Cammer]

Rob, if you need a hand with the NPAS I can help. One bit of advice, don't cut the nossle. After I cut mine I cannot slow the gun down enough. I used a peice of paper to hold the spring out a bit when I put the nossle back into the bolt. After the pin was in I pulled the nossle out enough to let the paper drop out.

[jordan7831]

Good post basic wedge! lots of good information contributed to this thread! I just wanted to chime in on the lube for the trigger group. I dont think break free would be the best IMO. I use silicon spray and that seems to work wonders!


On a side note; for the owners who have fired many thousands of rounds through theres. After cleaning the bolt carrier do you still have a greyish sludge?

[Basic-Wedge]

I just received my new WE G39K yesterday, and I really like what I've seen of it thus far. After many hours familiarizing myself with the rifle, installing upgrade parts, and firing it in an effort to tune its output, these are some of my initial findings:


Straight out of the box, this rifle is a monster!

In unmodified form, it launched .25 BBs at 425 fps, using Coleman brand propane, at 20°C. A follow up test, later in the day, using duster gas, saw .25 BBs averaging 295 fps, at 23°C. Back to propane, and with the RA-Tech NPAS valve now installed, velocities averaging 394 fps were observed under 27°C temperatures.

So far, all velocities achieved with propane are far in excess of our local field limits. To tame down to acceptable velocity, the rifle will have to output no more than 350 fps with .25 BBs (about equivalent to 400 fps with .20 BBs). I'd be happier with even more leeway, say about 325 fps.

The NPAS valve has velocities heading downward, but I'm going to have to develop a better comprehension of how it works in conjunction with the rifle's nozzle before I can properly tune the system. I don't know if the valve should be mostly opened or almost closed, or how much I should trim off the tabs on the G39's piston. It all seems a bit muddled at this point.


I've read that many users experience slight over-hop, even with the hop-up unit set to its lowest setting. I experienced that too, but solved the issue by removing the stock hop-up nub, and replacing it with an “H” shaped SCS, or “Shredder Concave Spacer”. The stock nub is noticeably thicker than any nub I've previously encountered – I'd say it's simply too thick for this application. Now, with the Shredder, I'm getting a beautiful, flat trajectory over huge distance.

While I had the hop-up system disassembled, I took the opportunity to apply a thin wrap of Teflon tape around the hop-up rubber and down the barrel about 2cm. I've noticed some users report this helps stabilize the inner barrel. In my case, I did it with the hope of forming a more airtight seal between the hop-up rubber and the barrel. In any event, it doesn't hurt anything, and it may even help.


A comment I've read often is that the barrel nut is on so tight, extraordinary means must be employed to remove it. On my rifle, I used a section of 1/8th inch flat steel as a makeshift wrench, inserted it into one of the slots, then carefully loosened the barrel nut. I would not advise using a flat blade screwdriver for this, as the blade will surely be too thin and the tapering will work against you. Using a flat bar of steel seems much safer.


Once I'd gotten the inner barrel out of the rifle, I thought it might be a good idea to run some cleaning patches through it. I'm glad I did, because it was extremely filthy. I used a dozen patches before I had it cleaned, and some of the first patches picked up specks of brass and other flecks of metal. The inside of the outer barrel also needed cleaning, as there was quite a bit of debris in there too. The stock inner barrel is a stout 34cm long 6.03mm tight bore, made of thick brass. RA-Tech makes a replacement 6.01 tight bore, but with getting velocities under control being such a daunting issue, I don't see myself ever wanting a barrel which will, again, boost BB velocities.


A popular modification recommended for the WE G39 is to replace part #125, listed as an M3x3 screw (a 3mm allen head screw, 3mm long) with a similar fastener that's 5mm long. Early production models may have benefitted from this mod, but my rifle came from the factory with an M3x5 already installed.


There are several parts changes I've made that I'd like to recommend to other G39K owners:

I replaced the WE aluminum flash hider with a Classic Army G36K flash hider made of steel. The CA unit is noticeably heavier, and I like the improved balance that extra weight provides.

I also replaced the original charging handle, made of reinforced polymer, with a CNC'd aluminum unit from NeBula. The two parts look absolutely identical, but the aluminum handle should stand up longer to repeated use. The NeBula came from Tokyo Model Company in Hong Kong and sells for $28 USD. To swap out the handle, all it took was the removal of a single pin.

I also installed a WE IdZ stock and top rail. The stock folds, same as the original skeleton stock, but is adjustable for pull, and has a cheek rest with three settings. The top rail is a simplified design, featuring folding back-up sights, which snap crisply up or down. I've taken advantage of the increased amount of available rail space, and mounted a clone 3.4x Elcan scope at the back end. I'm hopeful this robust unit will handle the rifle's fairly stiff recoil.


The only portion of the rifle I haven't tackled in depth is the trigger group. For now, I intend to check the entire assembly for loose fasteners, then lubricate it with Break-Free CLP, the synthetic lubricant of choice for all my firearms going back many, many years.

On the exterior of the bolt carrier group I've been happy using Phil Waterproof Grease, but I'm still searching for the right lubricant for the inner parts of the BCG. None of my usual choices have given me the smoothness of function I experienced with the original factory applied lubricant.


That's all I have to report at this stage. My G39K shows plenty of promise. I've made excellent headway on it so far, but I have to focus now on getting the velocity under control, so I can use this in local games.