Replicas siezed in York Region

[as_styles]

Well the facts are if you break laws you are bound to get shut down and charged.

Without the import permits, you are importing illegally. This makes us all look bad.

[aZn_triXta07]

I think they DO have the permits, but seeing how strict all the laws have become lately and I'm sure the governments been giving everyone hell, might be a reason why ASCA is stopping the order of all guns. My guess is that Kuramae probably went oh screw the government we have the licenses, than the government uses their power to manipulate blah blah blah u'know especially with there being no clear cut laws about airsoft etc etc... you get the picture.

Originally Posted by as_styles

Well the facts are if you break laws you are bound to get shut down and charged.

Without the import permits, you are importing illegally. This makes us all look bad.

[Identity]

Who gives a shit about Kuramae. The guy was a dick head anyways.
Yay! He just fucked himself in the ass and now ruined the rep on airsoft...
I knew something bad would happen to him one day or another, he was always talking trash and over pricing guns.
You guys remember this post?
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....hlight=kuramae
My rant about his shifty attitiude.

Trixta I rememeber you told me that you were close friends with that guy!

[aZn_triXta07]

I wasn't close, I never said I was close friends with them, if I was I would never need to buy off of Raygis or BCAirsoftSupply or BuyAirsoft.ca. I knew Kelvin decently well, we'd chat occasionaly when I'd stop by the store but that was about it. I'm sure they had the licenses cause they've been selling airsoft for years, like come on, the majority of crimes committed with firearms here in Toronto are with BB guns and Pellet guns of all sorts, so even if they DID have the licenses the government would obviously pressure them to stop doing it, but it's their choice right? They probably went oh well with that I'm paying for licenses why not ... and the government like customs seeing that there are no clear cut laws can do what they want, or what they think is right.

[Manaconda]

I don't know if any of you has noticed but the cops have now taken more replica fire arms off the streets in the past six months than they have taken real fire arms. They need to be seen as doing something.

guys it is what it is. I hope to see all of you at the nearest game when the weather clears. Airsoft forever

[Blackhawk_Leader]

Notice how it was the ghang unit too there ovesly trying to show that there not afraid of geting into seizing the wepons ovisly there either showing them like real guns (whith out the orange tip) or the cops are bums

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk_Leader

Notice how it was the ghang unit too there ovesly trying to show that there not afraid of geting into seizing the wepons ovisly there either showing them like real guns (whith out the orange tip) or the cops are bums

Dude, you either need to lay off the pot or do some growing up. This issue is more complex than you can understand.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by aZn_triXta07

I think they DO have the permits, but seeing how strict all the laws have become lately and I'm sure the governments been giving everyone hell, might be a reason why ASCA is stopping the order of all guns. My guess is that Kuramae probably went oh screw the government we have the licenses, than the government uses their power to manipulate blah blah blah u'know especially with there being no clear cut laws about airsoft etc etc... you get the picture.

If they had permits to import.. they would not be charged with import offenses...

The wind is blowing in a new direction.. at least for now..

These guys got busted for importing and trafficing in prohibited devices.
They have been charged.. this is a reality.

The police clearly have the will and intent to enforce the law against the trafficing in prohibited devices.. and in this case they deemed airsoft guns to be replicas...

It is no longer a "western Canada issue" or a Quebec Issue... it is a canada wide change in the direction of enforcment with respect to replica firearms.

They are going after the sources...First the unlicensed importers.. the ones flaunting the abuse of the law.
Maybe it will stop there... maybe it won't

A prudent man would cease trade until the new landscape emerges from the fog

[kalnaren]

Yea, I guess it takes less effort to do something about illegally imported relicas than illegally imported firearms.

[Goldman]

Is it not possible that they did hold the correct permits, but their intent to traffic voided the permit, causing it to be unlawful importation? I don't recall the exact wording, but my understanding was that the importation required there to be intent to use them lawfully?

[Scarecrow]

.. it is a canada wide change in the direction of enforcment with respect to replica firearms.

Yes so far, as it pertains to retailers. A troubling development no less, but there isn't evidence to suggest individual players are at risk... yet...

From my understanding this is about importing and reselling outside the terms of the import licenses that they may or may not have had. Whether this means a crack down on airsoft in general or just as it relates to players remains to be seen. There has been no formal warning of a crackdown of any kind but ASCA is doing the prudent thing and ceasing sales of airsoft guns. Incidently the bust at Pac Mall was just coincidence - ASCA had made that decision prior to that bust, it was just a sort of 'icing on the cake/last straw' thing.

After speaking with Hojo today, what is clear to me is that the current set of laws as they stand don't support the sale of airsoft in Canada. As far as ownership goes, there hasn't been a case on record that we know of where someone was charged without first having done something to warrant it (as an individual) and that the law has been in place for the last 9 years to do so. The December 1, 1998 grandfather date was put in place with the import controls in the hopes that the supply would choke off and that there would be no need to pursue individuals owning guns. Those publically transacting with AEGs after December 1998, specifically those SELLING them are putting themselves at risk, and those violating the terms of their import licenses are for all intents and purposes are breaking the law. As for the buyer, it is a lot less clear. An airsoft gun is only a "replica" if the law deems it as such and that designation is debatable and has yet to be directly tested in a court as it pertains to an individual player. The way the laws are written makes it simply unclear, which is why I think the retailers are the easiest targets to go after.

For those arguing the whole in-out of the closet on airsoft, it is my feeling that its time to pursue the acknowledged and legal ownership of replicas, because as it stands, it looks like airsoft is slowly becoming recognized as 'replica' in the eyes of the law.

The only risk in doing this is that if it goes against us, they could write laws that do the opposite and make us all criminals overnight. The firearms community has experienced this first hand, so don't dismiss it as unlikely.

I'm not exactly sure where to take it from here. Events that have taken place yesterday and in the past months were put in motion long before they happened, so there is a plan being executed against retailers of airsoft guns, there is no doubt. But it is still unclear where that leaves the community of hobbists that we are and whether they will ultimately pursue us individually. In speaking to some LE, there are no new orders at the street level regarding them. I suspect if there is a move afoot to come after individuals, we will see a change in how the individual officer is told how to handle airsoft gun encounters or whether to actively pursue them.

There are LE on this board and I am sure LE who play airsoft reading this. Keep your ears to the ground and if you see a change in the wind, let your friends know before something comes down the pipe. As much as I love airsoft, if I have to throw my AEG receiver into the woodchipper, I will.

Hojo seems to feel the PAL option and having a provision for replicas may be viable. I understand Greylocks has done some research and has found a sympathetic ear in the right place that might help with that - I dunno, he can address that. And that begets another thought I had - custom receivers that don't resemble real world gun receivers but that still look militaristic - is this a viable option?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Goldman

Is it not possible that they did hold the correct permits, but their intent to traffic voided the permit, causing it to be unlawful importation? I don't recall the exact wording, but my understanding was that the importation required there to be intent to use them lawfully?

Yes it is very possible that they had import licenses... but violated them by selling them to individuals.. Good point

[trufret]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

And that begets another thought I had - custom receivers that don't resemble real world gun receivers but that still look militaristic - is this a viable option?

It might make them technically legal for awhile but if the government set on getting rid of things that look real all it would take is a stroke of the pen. the other issue is we'd probably have to have them manufactured here as I doubt any airsoft company is going to start making generic military looking receivers just for our market. We'd probably be better of getting m-16 conversion kits for Tippman A-5s but if it comes to that the milsim community in the country will wither to nothing overnight.

[kalnaren]

Yea, I agree with trufret. Chances of getting someone to custom make recievers just for the Canadian market is pretty slim.

[Lakonian]

Go with PAL. But let's not lie to ourselves.. If the government wants to shut this sport down, they will. I don't like it, but there's not a whole lot we can do to prevent their iron fist from crushing our sport. Plus.. cops gotta prove the taxes are going to work! I mean.. ofcourse they'd rather raid someone with replicas as opposed to real steel.. it's just safer...