Border Services probe nets 800 illegal replica guns, 78 criminal charges

[808]

There's been a lot of talk about these types of ideas, but it never really goes anywhere.

This really isn't the place (thread) to discuss it.

But you can rest assured you are preaching to the converted.

[Lawless]

we take ourselves to seriously, and I mean that on all levels. Talk of registering and having licences to shoot each other with souped up sewing machines, give me a break, I dont mean that to be offensive to the original poster of that idea cause I mean at least you are trying and putting ideas out there. Then on the flip side is how customs acts, fuck guys dont you remember being kids? and playing guns on the street with cap guns and what not, canada and canadian airsoft takes itself way to seriously.

[KillerCreed]

Originally Posted by 808

There's been a lot of talk about these types of ideas, but it never really goes anywhere.

This really isn't the place (thread) to discuss it.

But you can rest assured you are preaching to the converted.

You are absolutely correct on that it has gone no where Rich. Usually, because the players are afraid of what could happen from the govn't that all they do is talk about doing it. Eventually they either forget about it or quit b4 they start.

[Savage Haggis]

Originally Posted by 808

This really isn't the place (thread) to discuss it.

But you can rest assured you are preaching to the converted.

...but you can rest assured you are preaching to the convicted?



Sorry, couldn't help myself.....

I'll go away now...

[gabe_guitarded]

I think instead of flaming the underage noobs to tears, we should propagandize them until they are mature about airsoft and push them into politics and law so we have some people on our side to advocate for us.

For the CBSA spooks lurking these forums reading this post:

The above post was intended as a joke, not a serious suggestion, and in no way do any of us here at ASC intend to brainwash youth's to fight for airsoft in government and law. I think.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Rhonda

You are absolutely correct on that it has gone no where Rich. Usually, because the players are afraid of what could happen from the govn't that all they do is talk about doing it. Eventually they either forget about it or quit b4 they start.

We're not afraid of doing something. If that's what you and 808 are taking away from the past threads, you either need to read them again or think a little more deeply. We can't just do anything because we can make things worse. we need a plan that works. Since no one has provided a plan that survives the scrutiny of individuals involved in the 2003 options paper, in addition to experience lobbyists on the forum, what are you expecting?

Oh and, the idea of licencing and registration is no go right off the bat. Not only is the Firearms Act not worded to support such activities, but the CFC is more against the idea of licencing and registering replica than they are against replicas themselves. They've got their hands full licencing and registering real firearm and their users, they are not going to stick their neck out and increase their own burden just so we have a good time. That is a fact.

[DarkAngel]

Originally Posted by 808

People are smuggled into this country to work in the sex trade everyday. Drugs are smuggled in and out of this country easier than Airsoft.

Dont Jinx it, Ive got 3 Japanese 16 year old girls (at least they look 16, u never know with japanese girls) en route via Cargo Container... And i dont want to lose my $1.43 Deposit with Aqua.

On a serious note,
Airsoft Owners arnt in any immediate danger. First off, as it was noted, it was customs agents that arrested him, not police. The charges range from smuggling and falsifying the purpose in which they were being imported for, and selling them for purposes they wernt being imported for. These guys were big players for selling Airsoft Guns, not individual owners. Im sure that CSBA + RCMP, LE divisions are monitoring this site on a regular basis, i bet that a bunch of them are also age verified and have access to the classifieds. But im also sure that they will not expend and waste that kind of tax dollars to raid an individual owner. It costs ALOT of money and manhours to conduct raids + investigations, and no matter how big and import you think you are. Noone cares about you, noone cares that you have a bunch of airsoft guns, and noone cares that your playing airsoft and as long as you dont do something stupid with it, the police wont care about you as well.

The problem with Physical retailers is that Anyone can walk in and get one, which means that punk kids and "thugs" can get their hands on them and use them for a purpose that it wasnt ment for.

All you doomsayers going on and on about how "airsoft is at an end, Sell your guns now! etc", kindly take your posts to the trash, cause airsoft is not at an end. Theres ALWAYS the classifieds, theres Always going to be games and theres Always going to be people like me who are getting tired of hearing this posted every 2 months.

[Xx William xX]

Originally Posted by DarkAngel

All you doomsayers going on and on about how "airsoft is at an end, Sell your guns now! etc", kindly take your posts to the trash, cause airsoft is not at an end. Theres ALWAYS the classifieds, theres Always going to be games and theres Always going to be people like me who are getting tired of hearing this posted every 2 months.

I disagree. I think everyone should sell their guns now! Sell them at as low a price as you can.($100 or so) You need to get rid of them a soon as possible. They are coming for you. I'll take all the evidence you have!

[toadhound]

The problem I have with this whole thing is they enforce these laws based on their own interpritations. To the CBSA they are illegal and to most police departments they don't give a shit because they are not guns.

[DarkAngel]

Originally Posted by toadhound

The problem I have with this whole thing is they enforce these laws based on their own interpritations. To the CBSA they are illegal and to most police departments they don't give a shit because they are not guns.

Welcome to Canada, land of the beaurocrats... and poutine. Damn you T7, that poutine thread of yours comes to mind again!

[Mongoose]

Originally Posted by swalsh

I just read about this in the Calgary Sun, and was going to get online and "give everyone the scoop" on what's up.... Then I find that there is already 5 pages on the forums detailing what happened and it's potential implications.

In any case, I'd like to mirror the comments above that something has to be done. We need some leadership and representation for the sport at a national level, someone to clue in our elected politicians that this sport is being taken apart, piece by piece by the misguided policies of the CBSA.
Anyone feel up for the job? I'd be curious to see how the British players got together and had their voices heard recently when the sport was in jeopardy across the pond. That might be a good starting point. *** Does anyone have an 'in' with Arnie, or any of the major players over there, that might be able to pick their brains, get some advice and or direction that might help???***
I think that someone, who is mature, experienced in the sport, has a handle on the pulse of our sport across the country, and who is prepared to advocate for us in Ottawa should be appointed, and step up and start speaking out. I also think that it might be a very good idea for each of us to start making noise directed at our local MLA's and MP's on the issue as well.

Personally, I think if they want to go this way, then (dont flame me for this - its just an opinion, and probably wont be a very popular one, I know...) then create a replica licence for legitimate players and hobbyists. A short safe handling and / or written test, show proof of age (i'd suggest 18 or so since most clubs tend to stick to this age limit for players anyway), criminal record check to show you're not 'a gangsta' waiting for your 'throw down piece', and you get your licence. Showing your licence to a licenced dealer would then entitle you to purchase any aeg or gbb, and could also serve as a licence to transport your toy to a legitimate play area for legal use of the 'gun' in our sport. I guess, since I opened up this can of worms, I have to mention the ugly REGISTRY word too..... That could be kept very simple though, if the powers that be dont over think it.

The way we do things now, with anyone being able to just prove they are old enough, they have their parents drop a few hundred bucks to get their kid a toy gun... it's too open to the kind of problems that CBSA and the police ultimately want to avoid in the first place.

I think if we accept a little bit of inconvenience to have things done right, it will bring legitimacy to our sport, and cut down on the problems that airsoft has experienced in the past.

The one thing that has always irked me though, is that airsoft is so much more expensive in Canada, than in the US or overseas. I do not know the reason for this, but more than once I've read someone posting their opinion or idea that this is due to all the red tape and difficulty of importing airsoft into Canada. IF this is correct, then a licencing and registration process, and the resulting legitimacy it would bring to Canadian Airsoft, might even do something to bring the prices down for us...... Eh, maybe now I'm just dreaming.

OK, now I've said it, and opened myself up to FLAMES from every direction. I know this is likely to be a very unpopular idea, but I really think this, or some reasonable idea like it, might just be an idea that's time has come, and may save our sport from being banned sometime in the future.

I dont come on ASC often, so go ahead and tell me what a dumbass I am, or how my lameass idea would be the end of airsoft... I dont care what people think of me, I just dont want to see my favorite sport being slowly whittled away, until soon it is just plain impossible in Canada to play.

Sean W.

First thing...SWALSH, you're not a dumbass nor your ideas are lame. What you stated has been brought up before. For those who remember...Peter Kang tried numerous attempts to talk to those who are in power in the government in regards of this sport of ours. Every attempt failed...needless to say that shows the politicians are not willing to discuss this. In regards of registering your airsoft weapons...as we all know the known Bill C-68 was a complete failure as well way over budget. Now to do the same thing for airsoft would be a definately waste of tax-payers money and there will be no way anyone would vote to bring that in...not even the politicians themselves (takes out from their yearly bonus!). Perhaps more research on how other countries are managing to keep airsoft legal to own and purchase maybe an alternative way. See what regulations/legislations are in place for airsoft to be legal. A closer study to the US and UK policies and then purhaps when we have searched for every piece of knowledge, then maybe approach the government and show them what other countries are doing for this sport to be legal. By just approaching them stating we all are law-bidding citizens isn't enough to warrant a change in any laws. We have to provide proof as well dedicate ourselves to an commitment that we are treating these guns in a safe manner as if they are like their real counterparts.

As for the noobs that come online with us, instead of squaking to them they're too young and such...refer them to the FAQ section. Yes they are new to this sport and if we treat them like shit from the ghetto..why should they care what happens to the sport. More chances these new guys will do something stupid that will jeopardize this sport...they know that and they don't care. Coach them into safe usage of airsoft and start coaching them from the day they join and purhaps eventually we'll stop reading about some kid got arrested with airsoft in public. Let them ask their questions, no matter how stupid sounding their questions may be. We we're all once new to this site and we all asked dumbassed questions. Yet when most of us joined, we weren't rediculed for any of our questions, so why start now? Yes I know it gets frustrating to hear the same question over and over again but hey...let them ask. Doesn't mean you have to answer them if it makes you pissed off, let them be. Eventually someone else will answer their questions.

It all comes down to....what are you going to do to help make this sport live? By educating the new members on this sport and what responsibilities it carries, the better it will be for all of us in the end. If we can show that new person that we take this sport serious in safety and such, he'll/she'll follow through by doing the same. We are ALL role-models to the new members to the sport! By giving him shit for not reading the FAQ and to grow up and such...you're only showing you don't care about them nor the sport. We all have in one way or another bitched about the legalities of this sport and read about kids caught in public or committed offenses with airsoft. You may even know someone who plays with that Canadian Tire/Walmart airsoft in their back yards or what not, approach them and explain the sport. There has been numerous incidents where I have been in either Walmart or Crappy Tire and over heard kids talking about playing airsoft. I would approach them, identifiy myself to them and explain that I do play airsoft, not the cheap stuff either. I would get their ages and explain to them the laws of using airsoft in public places and the concequences that may follow if they are caught. If they are under age, I suggest to them to wait till they're of age to buy and I give them ASC website. You'll be amazed how many of these kids I've spoke to thanked me and are waiting to get of age. I've also told them if they have time to stop by one of our fields to see what all transpires at a game. That way they can ask the other players questions as well. Get them interacted with other players also helps their coaching. I've also had a few guys come over to my place and showed them my weapons and gear.

Again...what are you going to do to help make this sport successfull?

To the Mods: I appologize if this is in the wrong section.

[808]

Originally Posted by The Saint

We're not afraid of doing something. If that's what you and 808 are taking away from the past threads, you either need to read them again or think a little more deeply. We can't just do anything because we can make things worse. we need a plan that works. Since no one has provided a plan that survives the scrutiny of individuals involved in the 2003 options paper, in addition to experience lobbyists on the forum, what are you expecting?

The highlighted text is exactly why (I believe) nothing overly productive has happened in the last X years.

As for what I expect... Well, that's a bit of a loaded question (expect a long answer ). I expect an effort. From me, from you, from that guy (*points to the guy with the gun in the corner*).

Unless, of course, each and every one of us is content to just have our fun 'till "The Man" comes to close up shop, then this (and all related) discussions are just wasted breath (or finger calluses?).


On a serious note, and definitely off-topic for this thread - although it seems to be steering in this direction...

[[ Disclaimer: The following rant contains a lot of rhetorical questions directed at outer-space, no individual in particular. ]]

Why don't we start with the Opinions Paper and move forward from there? A lot has happened since then, especially in the UK. We could draw ideas from laws within the VCRA, and existing laws in the USA. We could draft amendments to existing laws and give them to lawyers/politicians to review.

As they are reviewed/rejected we can make further amendments and compromises until we have something Ottawa can potentially & realistically support.

I've said it before, and I feel I need to say it again. I am not a lawyer, and I only have a High School Education towards our country's political system. So all this may not be possible, but why not try? I mean, we did elect these people into office, didn't we? They have to at least listen, right?


Ah, but it's the long weekend, and I'm on a rant fueled by beer (Oh, Canada). So, it's about time I sign off, or oogle guns I don't have the money to buy.

I really see your point Saint, and I have no idea where to go from here, or what a next (first?) step would be. I'm actually shaking my head as I write this, because I feel like there is nothing I can do. I get the feeling a lot of us feel the same.

[Agit-Prop]

Sell your airsofts and buy real firearms (I did). Sure, you can't play wargames with them, but they are a lot of fun and the firearms community needs fresh blood.

The more legal firearms owners we have, the harder it becomes for the David Millers, Wendy Cukiers and Michael Bryants of the world to strip our rights

YOU can legally own pistols. YOU can legally own an AR-15. YOU can legally own an M-14. YOU can legally shoot all of them and more at your local gun club.

YOU CAN show everyone you know that ordinary everyday people CAN AND DO own and handle firearms RESPONSIBLY.

Firearms ownership in Canada has a future, and its YOU and ME!

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by 808

I really see your point Saint, and I have no idea where to go from here, or what a next (first?) step would be. I'm actually shaking my head as I write this, because I feel like there is nothing I can do. I get the feeling a lot of us feel the same.

Your frustration is very much understood and shared. Rest assured though, there are people on the forum working hard on possible solutions. You and I might not be privy to exactly what's going on, but the effort is certainly being made. If someone's machinations start to show promise, I'm sure we'll learn more.

[Gunk]

Originally Posted by Agit-Prop

Sell your airsofts and buy real firearms (I did). Sure, you can't play wargames with them, but they are a lot of fun and the firearms community needs fresh blood.

The more legal firearms owners we have, the harder it becomes for the David Millers, Wendy Cukiers and Michael Bryants of the world to strip our rights

YOU can legally own pistols. YOU can legally own an AR-15. YOU can legally own an M-14. YOU can legally shoot all of them and more at your local gun club.

YOU CAN show everyone you know that ordinary everyday people CAN AND DO own and handle firearms RESPONSIBLY.

Firearms ownership in Canada has a future, and its YOU and ME!

YOU need to make a "You can"/"We want YOU..." poster