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Old April 30th, 2010, 02:24   #16
DarkAngel
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Even if you upgrade the internals, the externals of clones still will have the same tolerance issues. And no, TM and CA is FAR from the most expensive you can buy.

What you guys need to understand is that clones are BELOW the norm, below the bar. Lowering the bar by flooding the market with cheap clones does not change the fact that they are chinese made clones.

If you think 500$ TM's and CA's are the gold plated caddys, you need to open your eyes. Companies like VFC, Innokatsu, Systema PTW, etc are MUCH more expensive.
Some of their guns starting in the 2-3k range.

I think you new guys need to realize that clones like JG, G&G and SRC is not the norm. They are just the lowered bar due to the flood of clones into the market.

There is a reason many experienced players will choose higher quality externals as well over the clones. The reason we choose high quality outter barrels, bodies etc is because of the material quality and tight tolerances. If I spend 100$ on a PDI 6.01 tightbore, im gonna protect it with a steel outer barrel. If my barrel hits a wall, its not going to bend, if you hit it with a jg or a cheaper clone, the materal is not as strong.

Experienced players buy quality parts for a reason. We dont throw our money away for no reason you know. Its not like we ENJOY spending a fortune on parts and guns. Experience shows and were trying to teach you not to make the same mistakes we did. Were trying to help you, but you need to listen to those that give you advice.

The way I worded things may not always be perfect. Im no diplomat. But many of us do ALOT for the community behind the curtains that you have no idea about. You should not make assumptions that we have no care for the community. When youve been in our shoes, made the same speech a hundred times to a hundred new players, and every one of them ignores the advice and come back crying later, you become quite... blunt.

So far, Every new player who has ignored this advice from me has come back to me with an apology. You can ask any gun doc, the real money comes from players who think they know better than to take the advice of one, or other experienced players and do whatever they want to do. Your free to do whatever you want. Its your money ultimately. But understand very clearly that it is your consious choice and that the consequences of said choices are entirely yours as well.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 04:08   #17
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Jinx, Darkangel knows what he's talking about (more or less... Recommending guarder parts should be punishable by a 3 week ban in my opinion...)

What he's saying is true, cheaping out on a base gun with the ideals of "Oh I'll just put better part into it later" is never a good idea.

Buy the highest quality you can afford.

And it's true -- The only repeat business I see are people that don't take my advise on how to build their guns (Or very satisfied customers bringing me other guns .)
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Old April 30th, 2010, 08:01   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth View Post
Try wargameparts.ca they are a new company that is bringing in modify products and is in the Edmonton area.
They have absolutly NO stock. Are you the owner?
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Old April 30th, 2010, 10:46   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos View Post
Recommending guarder parts should be punishable by a 3 week ban in my opinion...
Guarder makes excellent Cylinder Heads, Cylinders, Spring Guides.

Their gears are shit and improperly tempered (they shatter), their polycarbs are shit, pretty much everything else guarder makes is shit etc etc.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 10:53   #20
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Jinx you came on looking for help/advice and people offered it. Maybe you came on hoping people would say "oh yeah your bargain basement parts are great" and that's not what you ended up being told, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not sound info. The only close-mindedness that's been shown on this thread is from you.

At the end of the day you can put whatever parts you want in your gun, none of us give a rat's ass if it breaks or not. But people with solid experience are trying to help; they have nothing to gain from this except helping a fellow player avoid making costly mistakes.

So drop the rotten attitude and if you don't want to listen to what anyone has to say, don't waste their time.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 11:05   #21
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Case in point. I have a G&G m16 on my bench right now that needs a new sector gear *the axle broke right off it* a new piston *teeth chewed up* and a few other things here and there.

Its going to cost him over $100 with parts. And I only charge $20/hr "I am less experienced so I don't feel right charging the 50+ some do"

Now my team runs alot of TM's and not one issue with them. The boddies are tight tight tight. No creaks *except my fa-mas but thats a different story*.

Compare to the one guy that ignored me on buying a TM and bought a ACM m14.. that thing is the creakiest thing I have ever seen. And god I have not even opened up the mech box , I do not even know if I want to for him.

As for what brand of upgrade parts I use.

PDI springs over systema springs for consistancy *I think that has already been mentioned that systema springs are shit now*

Prometheus compression parts and spring guides

guarder hop up. Now this is only in my gun but it seems to work very well for my set up.

Everything else I use is OEM TM stuff! Gears, pistons, piston heads... why? because its readily avaliable here and honestly not that bad. That G&Gm16 is getting TM piston and sector gear lol.

So my point is and alot of other peoples points are TM and other quality brands will out last the clone stuff. Now there will ALWAYS be acceptions to the rules. So just keep that in mind when buying your gun. As for the after market parts what I use is because I can go to a brick and morter shop and buy it here in town... I hate waiting for stuff lol.





BTW on a side note I Agree with the comment on the reviews. 14 year olds on ebay doing airsoft gun reviews makes me want to club baby seals with kittens. Just saying.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 14:14   #22
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I'd put myself up as "experienced" and I only charge $20 an hour lol... I probably could get away with charging more... but 20/H feels like a fair rate to me.

I wouldn't use PDI or Systema springs... Don't get me wrong, PDI springs are fantastic.. but because they're all hand made they are not consistent with the rates on the packaging. You really CAN NOT go wrong with Prometheus or Modify springs.

Prom compression parts and spring guides are solid You should give Airsoft Research Syndicate parts a try, another tech here had prometheus stuff in his gun.. Took my word and tried out a set of ARS parts.. and now he's only using ARS parts in his guns

TM stuff is great, I use their pistons pretty much anywhere I can.. However TM gears aren't a good choice over 370 FPS, they're made for the Japanese market where going over 328 FPS is against the law... Because of this TM doesn't bother to make their gears any stronger.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 14:50   #23
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Originally Posted by 101jinx101 View Post
Well i don't want to get into a typing war, but I felt your initial post had a "your a dumbass for doin this and this and this" overtone. Your experience stories with G&G and SRC help to an extent, but to say "buy the most expensive stuff you can find, or get the fuck out" is kind of unprofessional... or maybe too professional. You've been doing it so long that you only use the best, I understand that. Sure, you dont like them, but how is this sport ever going to make any advancements in the public eye with threads like this? a "clone" gun works just fine for me, cause I'm not sniping from 250 ft away, or hitting quarters at 100 ft consistently. to be honest, I'll upgrade any gun I buy anyway, so why buy the most expensive stock internals if they're getting replaced? I just want something that will work for now, until I can slowly upgrade the parts one by one.
Like I said, not declaring war, just want you to realize how it sounded to someone less knowledgable who only has intentions of advancing the sport for the general public.
Comments on this brand part or that have been made...I'd agree with them all (although I think Prometheus parts are way over priced...nice though).

First and most important thing to do is set an affordable budget. Then stick to it. You'll realize pretty quick if you set your budget too low and compromised on parts/stuff. Don't like someone's blunt comments...welcome to an Internet forum, that's life.

Having worked over a lot of rifles (I worked over 5-6 just this past Wed eve)...I'm of the opinion that there's ultra-expensive "super builds" (we had a $2000 rifle in the shop)...and there's "solid" rifles (tend to cost around $600 give or take) and "cheap/low cost & quality junk"..."junk" is used a bit harshly 'cause sometimes they're ok...but they aren't nice. They creak, flex, break, and usually don't last very long at all.

Having said that...there's plenty of $$$$ rifles that have problems, issues, and fail spectacularly (right Darkangel?!?). I've got a $70 spring bolt action that shoots great for what I want it to do...and a $1000+ gas rifle that needs more love and attention. I've got a $1400 PTW that works just like I expect it to....for the performance and package I got...I think it was a great deal.

Usually, there's a happy medium in the $500-800 range that nets you a "solid" rifle. Works well, performs well, stands up to use and abuse.

Having looked back at lots of time and money spent...in my opinion...it's rarely ever "worth it" to spend lots of time/money to fix up cheap/low-cost&quality stuff. Spend just a little to simply get it running again...that's a fair decision to make. Spend buckets of money on it...that's silly (IMO).

I've had guys ask me to rebuild their "clones" (low cost * quality rifles) with $$$ of high end/price parts...I will typically dissuade them from doing so and steer them to mid-cost parts that are very good. I'll do it if they insist after hearing reason...because it's their dime at the end of the day.

After reading through all the posts here, you should have all the info you need.

Best of luck,

Tys
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Old April 30th, 2010, 15:04   #24
DarkAngel
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Having said that...there's plenty of $$$$ rifles that have problems, issues, and fail spectacularly (right Darkangel?!?)
Yup, Bang on. My C8 was a prime example of that. Money/High Quality Parts do not always garuntee perfection. But youll have alot more issues with clone parts than with quality parts.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 22:16   #25
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I'd put myself up as "experienced" and I only charge $20 an hour lol... I probably could get away with charging more... but 20/H feels like a fair rate to me.

I wouldn't use PDI or Systema springs... Don't get me wrong, PDI springs are fantastic.. but because they're all hand made they are not consistent with the rates on the packaging. You really CAN NOT go wrong with Prometheus or Modify springs.

Prom compression parts and spring guides are solid You should give Airsoft Research Syndicate parts a try, another tech here had prometheus stuff in his gun.. Took my word and tried out a set of ARS parts.. and now he's only using ARS parts in his guns

TM stuff is great, I use their pistons pretty much anywhere I can.. However TM gears aren't a good choice over 370 FPS, they're made for the Japanese market where going over 328 FPS is against the law... Because of this TM doesn't bother to make their gears any stronger.

Most rifles out here are runnin right around 400-420fps and quite a few on stock TM gears. I think the issue alot of people have is they upgrade to a hard piston and it destroyes the gears. I would rather replace a $20 piston than a gear set any day.

The pdi springs I have used don't seem to be that bad. Granted I have not cronied alot of them but they all seem to be shooting close to eachother, I normaly recommend a 150% which seems to bring in .20gram BB's at about 390-400fps. thats with a bearing spring guide, I think they are supposed to be at about 380 IIRC.

I would love to try that other brand but unless the store here starts carrying that stuff I don't think I will. Instant parts is nicer than waiting 2 weeks for parts lol. My work bench is too small to have back log.

As for the $20 an hour, There is literealy two gun docks here. Mustang and me. Hardcorps is in Pen and he is good but shipping stuff sucks. I believe mustang charges around $50 an hour for work. Don't quote me.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 23:15   #26
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Originally Posted by Dirty Deeds View Post
They have absolutly NO stock. Are you the owner?
Hey Dirty Deeds,

I am the owner of www.wargameparts.ca ...
The site has only been up for one week and isn't fully functional yet.
I will be doing an official introduction to ASC once the site is done.

Still in the process of uploading stock, should be up and running in a week!

But yes, I will be bringing in both Modify and Element parts
Please let me know if you would like specific products stocked.


- Randy

Last edited by szetor; April 30th, 2010 at 23:21..
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 05:34   #27
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fill valves! i would kill for a good canadian supplier.
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