Petitions

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by Bakes

Thats cool, i was just stating that we do have rights. We as canadians just cant let the government push us around.

Well as I understand it, while we have "rights" we actually dont have any entrenched property rights... Hence why its so easy for firearms and whatnot to dissapear through an OIC.

[Bakes]

#8 under the legal rights section of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure." I assume that applies to mail and packages since it is your property. Ah, I could be way off here. Seems to me that some canadian authorities have decided to play by their OWN rules. What I would like to know is who the hell wrote our constitution. What a bunch of idiots. Too much room for loopholes.

[conrad13]

I may be way off so please corret me if so but I believe we have that bastard Trudeau to blame for the constitution.

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by Bakes

#8 under the legal rights section of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure." I assume that applies to mail and packages since it is your property. Ah, I could be way off here. Seems to me that some canadian authorities have decided to play by their OWN rules. What I would like to know is who the hell wrote our constitution. What a bunch of idiots. Too much room for loopholes.

Unreasonable Search and Siezure does not equate to entrenched property rights. It is more in the spirit of being detained or searched by authorities, or an authority siezing something for no reasonable reason.

This doesn't apply to CCRA, as the reason for siezure is their interpretation of the CCC, they don't just do it to be dicks.

Edit - Grey, unless you actually know of someone who is currently "doing something", in which case I would expect some kind of update from you on these attempts, please stop saying these random and useless things. One does not need professional training in the area to be helpful. In fact having a mind that wasn't trained in these areas can sometimes lead for an intersting back door that a "trained" person might not consider. Yes it leads to crap, but there is a good chance gold can come of it too.

[mcguyver]

Show me where in the Charter of Rights it's written that the rights conatined therein are absolute and inviolate. I'll save you the trouble of searching. There is no such guarantee.

The government can use this simple omission as justification to suspend any right at any time for any reason. Trudeau's "backdoor" to another War Measures Act, if it ever became necessary. He might have been the worst thing to ever happen to Canada, but he wasn't stupid.

[Bakes]

Hold on there Goldman, If what Greylocks put in a news post is true. Meeting with the CFC, is kind of a big thing. That would make him that person he knows.

[jamilsaleem]

Originally Posted by Daes

And if you had read the last petition post you would have seen that paper petitions have been tried before:

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...light=Petition
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...light=Petition

The community has been doing petitions for many years now, you might want to hit that search button a bit more before posting. It is a tried and true idea for many movements but look up what they did in the UK to get a better understanding of what it takes to get Airsoft recognized. Other countries have done this before us, search the internet for more information and it might help everyone get a better understanding of this, rather then everyone ranting and flying off the handle...

just wana say something, i read alot in several of the threads about "petitions been tried before" thing, and that its been tried since 2000, one in 03 and another in 05, now its 07. that fact the it didnt work back then dosnt mean its not gona work and we should sit down hand on hand, the community have grown since then and is growing, maybe people with fresh ideas. guys starting petition even if its not gona work, at least its leting the community and members know and keeping them active and making them realize that we are in trouble and it might become a bigger trouble, so its good for them to keep it in the back of thier heads to be ready when it gets bigger. i mean being totaly negative and killing the spirit is just not right. the seniors who are working on it like grey i read on the other thread it might get us somewhere and like gold said they should keep us updated too. so we know where are we standing. some might say i havnt been here long enough to talk about it...i dono i just sait what i wanted to

cheers

Originally Posted by Bakes

Hold on there Goldman, If what Greylocks put in a news post is true. Meeting with the CFC, is kind of a big thing. That would make him that person he knows.

yah, on ASC there are some people who will never believe a thing Greylocks says.

however, just because someone in the CBSA says something, doesnt make it true. You could ask 5 different police officers about airsoft and you will get 5 different answers. Unless its on official police or CBSA letterhead, its nothing concrete.

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

I was not talking with the CBSA at all, but a CFC rep who happened to have a clue. Nothing more, nothing less.

Feel free to beleive what I write or not, your choice. Did I say anywhere that it was me who ran that show? If you remore your "I Hate Greylocks" blinders for a minute, the guys who are working on it already said so.

Or maybe you hate them too?

Where does it say I hate you, or I think your full of shite?

Your post in this thread was simply saying "Shut up, someone else will handle it for you, you don't know what your doing so bugger off". My response was aimed at the arrogance of such a statement. Also, to be fair I hadn't read your post in the annoucnements section, given that there are what 7 pages to that thread, 90% of which are "ZOMG teh cl0sed?". I'll give you that.

[Daes]

Originally Posted by jamilsaleem

just wana say something, i read alot in several of the threads about "petitions been tried before" thing, and that its been tried since 2000, one in 03 and another in 05, now its 07. that fact the it didnt work back then dosnt mean its not gona work and we should sit down hand on hand, the community have grown since then and is growing, maybe people with fresh ideas. guys starting petition even if its not gona work, at least its leting the community and members know and keeping them active and making them realize that we are in trouble and it might become a bigger trouble, so its good for them to keep it in the back of thier heads to be ready when it gets bigger. i mean being totaly negative and killing the spirit is just not right. the seniors who are working on it like grey i read on the other thread it might get us somewhere and like gold said they should keep us updated too. so we know where are we standing. some might say i havnt been here long enough to talk about it...i dono i just sait what i wanted to

cheers

And if you had bother to read anything posted here and on ASC you would realize that people are already doing work here in Canada and that a wealth of information is available regarding what the UK went through with airsoft laws. But no, that is okay, we can just keep running around with our heads cut off sending out poorly written letters to our MP's and running useless petitions... This kind of scare happens every year and all the N00BS run around going OMFG!!!111one!!! we are all going to die. So no, drop this BS and let the professionals do their work. Sending our poorly written letters and petitions is not going to help the cause, only hinder it. There is no spirit being killed here, just mass hysteria of people who are acting no different then the very soccer moms at the root of the problem...

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by jamilsaleem

just wana say something, i read alot in several of the threads about "petitions been tried before" thing, and that its been tried since 2000, one in 03 and another in 05, now its 07. that fact the it didnt work back then dosnt mean its not gona work and we should sit down hand on hand, the community have grown since then and is growing, maybe people with fresh ideas. guys starting petition even if its not gona work, at least its leting the community and members know and keeping them active and making them realize that we are in trouble and it might become a bigger trouble, so its good for them to keep it in the back of thier heads to be ready when it gets bigger. i mean being totaly negative and killing the spirit is just not right. the seniors who are working on it like grey i read on the other thread it might get us somewhere and like gold said they should keep us updated too. so we know where are we standing. some might say i havnt been here long enough to talk about it...i dono i just sait what i wanted to

cheers

I would imagine holding off until a unified front can be presented would be best. Your wishes and attempt is admirable, but we dont want to be pulling weakly in 9 different directions when we can sit tight for a little bit, and get everyone pulling on the same line.

By that same token, don't take this as a "sit down, shut up". Keep coming up with ideas that might help, just don't act on them just yet.

[Daes]

Originally Posted by Goldman

I would imagine holding off until a unified front can be presented would be best. Your wishes and attempt is admirable, but we dont want to be pulling weakly in 9 different directions when we can sit tight for a little bit, and get everyone pulling on the same line.

By that same token, don't take this as a "sit down, shut up". Keep coming up with ideas that might help, just don't act on them just yet.

Perfectly said Goldman. United we stand, divided we fall. Wait our time to group and pool our resources. To randomly strike blindly serves nothing. This is what happened in the UK and they succeeded, they grouped together and did the work as one, not a mess of seperate groups.

-Deas

[Dirty Deeds]

Originally Posted by Daes

This kind of scare happens every year and all the N00BS run around going OMFG!!!111one!!! we are all going to die.

This is not like the past years. People are going to jail this time. Not to add to the paranoia, but we have to unite and take the fight to the government soon, or we will just be run over with more laws. Airsoft is in the grey area right now, but it looks like it will be pretty black and white before too long, seeing what has been happening in recent events.

Those of us who have an idea what has to be done should take charge and run with it. I have no idea where to begin myself, but my voice and money are ready to be thrown in at any given notice. Need a rally in Ottawa, I'll be there. That's the best I can do at the moment. However, those who can do more should.

I think a separate thread should be started to discuss stratagy and our options. Those of who do not have anything constructive to add or first hand knowledge should just read and not post.

I would rather see us fight to preserve airsoft than just be run over by the lawmakers, who refuse to deal with the root of the problem. As I am sure those of us who take our hobby seriously have never tried to knock over the corner store with our GBB.

My $0.02

[Bakes]

Originally Posted by Daes

And if you had bother to read anything posted here and on ASC you would realize that people are already doing work here in Canada and that a wealth of information is available regarding what the UK went through with airsoft laws. But no, that is okay, we can just keep running around with our heads cut off sending out poorly written letters to our MP's and running useless petitions... This kind of scare happens every year and all the N00BS run around going OMFG!!!111one!!! we are all going to die. So no, drop this BS and let the professionals do their work. Sending our poorly written letters and petitions is not going to help the cause, only hinder it. There is no spirit being killed here, just mass hysteria of people who are acting no different then the very soccer moms at the root of the problem...

I read one post where one guy recommended that someone type up a letter that represents what we all want and everyone uses that letter to send to MP's. I agree, we dont need everyone sending their factless, uneducated letters off to the people higher up. Thats why this needs to be organized. And signed petitions that have 5000+ signatures hold more weight that just a letter with a few signatures. The petition thing is a good idea wether you want to believe it or not.
EDIT:
Oh and when you get that letter and petition with 5000 signatures, dont just send to one MP, get a big huge stack of brown envelopes and send a package off to every MP in the country.

[jamilsaleem]

Originally Posted by Daes

And if you had bother to read anything posted here and on ASC you would realize that people are already doing work here in Canada and that a wealth of information is available regarding what the UK went through with airsoft laws. But no, that is okay, we can just keep running around with our heads cut off sending out poorly written letters to our MP's and running useless petitions... This kind of scare happens every year and all the N00BS run around going OMFG!!!111one!!! we are all going to die. So no, drop this BS and let the professionals do their work. Sending our poorly written letters and petitions is not going to help the cause, only hinder it. There is no spirit being killed here, just mass hysteria of people who are acting no different then the very soccer moms at the root of the problem...

wait a sec brother, if you bother to read my post completely you'll notice that i never said that no bodys doning nothing i actually mentioned that our seniors are doing something with an example, and i didnt raise a panick of "OMG we are all going to die.", my whole point. my point about spirit killing, pettitions and as goldman said going in 9 defferent directions.
i didnt say we should go following anyone who writes a pettition, i actually meant and said that the ones who are active should keep all of them updated and involved so we can be organized to make a united front. and when the pros are doing something that nobody knows of people will try to make a movement out of concern, when somebody comes up with a pettition shut them up not by saying shut up its not gona work, shut them up by saying wait till we get organized then we'll do it together. the problem is some ideviduals who are active are not taking the lead, "i am doing this but i dono if its gona work so i wont take no responsibility", make board of our pros who are involved and active seriosly, to discuss it and take the lead so we could follow one front.

P.S: i started the post a little rough and the last two posts were posted while i was writting and we are saying almost the same thing...dont want it to look like i acted like an ass