Flakers - Why not have a game feedback system?

[The Lettonian]

Just read through this thread front to back and I have a question that I will precede with a wee comment.

I'm a reasonably new player, so I don't remember the "good old days" at all - I joined up shortly after the most recent "sky falling" spell a couple of years ago. Since then I've seen alot of threads about how clearsoft is ruining the sport, noobs are breaching the defences in hordes, etc. I try and stay out of the arguments since I really don't have much to compare the community to. So now I rely on you vets who have been around a while for a bit of your input.

Has the number of players who actually show decreased, or has the flake percentage merely increased? That is to say, has the community grown such that we have many more players with more chronic flakers per capita, but the actual number of players has remained steady or possibly gone up? Or have the numbers simply gone down as more old timers recede into the woodwork and the new blood just can't be counted on?

It's always interesting to get comments from guys who have been around for a while...I kinda wish I had the time and patience to read through the collective archives of ASC, but something tells me there's much more "useless" than there is "intersting," and most of the fun I've missed out on has been on the field anyway. At any rate, perhaps one of you could comment on the above?

On a more "mere chatter" note, I will admit I have tented my fair share of games...usually with a "if school/ride doesn't fuck me" added on. That being said, thanks to Brian's vigorous campaigning, as it were, I've stopped. So score one conversion if you're keeping track.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go mug an old lady so I can get some money together and confirm at the next FR game.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

In my opinion, the degree of flaking has remained pretty constant.. However.. the demographic for AS has been sliding younger over the past couple of years.

I think this is due to the cost to get in the game heading on a downward trend.. people with less disposable income find that they are able to afford to get involved. With respect to the overall growth of the community.. this is a good thing.. more people in .. mean more people getting serious about it and going deep into the hobby .. with investment in good quality gear and guns and investment in training such.

But with a younger demographic comes the "fickleness of youth" where there are very many social demands on time and where just a little too much wasted time results in scholastic crunches that can play havoc with planned funtime. Couple this with people who are working part time and trying to pick up as much work as they can ( so thay can afford that better gun and better gear) and you set up the likelyhood that people may not be able to or inclined to attend a game they said they would.

this is also the genesis of the "tentative" posting for the aforementioned reasons people have trouble doing much advanced planning as the Schedule is constantly in flux due to unforeseen work opportunities or scholastic pressures. I understand the issues.. I was a starving student with expensive hobbies as well.

The solution is .. to not post you will be at a game until you are sure you can make it.. even if this means on the day of the game..

I get lots of people who PM me on game day asking if they can come to a capped OP .. I have very rarely turned anyone away.

But if you post "tent" and then neither commit nor show up .. you go on my " not to be trusted list" which is not easy to get off of.

[CARL]

Top Reason in my book, plus from speaking with other old timers.

1 Economy, people just don't have the money to be dropping on games, and upgrades for the fix and repair daily AEG's.

2. CBSA crack down, and loss of critical retailers, combined with stricter ant-gun policy.

3. Old timers are burnt out, and have priorities that they neglected before and are now on the top of their to do list.

4. The wearing down effect of added cost & aggravation of constantly fixing over priced low quality products from Asia. Especially in these economic times!

5. And of course, Crapsoft & Clearsoft undermining game play. This also undermines the quality of AEG's. Also from I have been told even when buying good internals has been going down as well. Not to mention the constant new companies popping up from china, and there endless clones that only hurt the more reputable, and named manufacture's. Airsoft should be improving in quality, not going the other way, although from what I have herd, and seen now is that some of the newer made AEG apparently are getting back on track. ( Gun doc's knowledge needed)


These are my opinions combined from others I have spoken with have said about the community & game play.


My personal prediction is as the economy sort's it self out over the next few years, things are going to vastly improve into another "Airsoft Golden Age".

This depends on the economy improving, and no more increases of restriction from CBSA or government, but don't count on that, if anything they will increase the restrictions.

[The Lettonian]

Thanks guys, appreciated.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by FNG_13

Just read through this thread front to back and I have a question that I will precede with a wee comment.

I'm a reasonably new player, so I don't remember the "good old days" at all - I joined up shortly after the most recent "sky falling" spell a couple of years ago. Since then I've seen alot of threads about how clearsoft is ruining the sport, noobs are breaching the defences in hordes, etc. I try and stay out of the arguments since I really don't have much to compare the community to. So now I rely on you vets who have been around a while for a bit of your input.

Has the number of players who actually show decreased, or has the flake percentage merely increased? That is to say, has the community grown such that we have many more players with more chronic flakers per capita, but the actual number of players has remained steady or possibly gone up? Or have the numbers simply gone down as more old timers recede into the woodwork and the new blood just can't be counted on?

It's always interesting to get comments from guys who have been around for a while...I kinda wish I had the time and patience to read through the collective archives of ASC, but something tells me there's much more "useless" than there is "intersting," and most of the fun I've missed out on has been on the field anyway. At any rate, perhaps one of you could comment on the above?

On a more "mere chatter" note, I will admit I have tented my fair share of games...usually with a "if school/ride doesn't fuck me" added on. That being said, thanks to Brian's vigorous campaigning, as it were, I've stopped. So score one conversion if you're keeping track.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go mug an old lady so I can get some money together and confirm at the next FR game.

Player flake in my opinion has increased dramatically, back in the pre internet/ASC, cell phone days Poncho, Wilson,Gary and Vince used to organize the games weeks at the latest and months ahead at the earliest, the numbers of players showing up has always been more than expected, I remember the days where we manage to stuff 60 plus players in paintball city all this was done by word of mouth and a house phone. sometimes Poncho even have to reject players because there were so many that showed up.

Back to present days aside from conflict of schedules there are games that the vets avoid simply because it's not organized properly or inexperience host hosting or it could be as simple as teh players attending. Player flake numbers has increased due to the vast amount of games available and in My opinion it is also the mentallity of teh present day players where there is not much effort needed in order to attend games compared to the late 80's, I mean some of the players have so many games choices to attend that they don't care if they miss a game or two, there is always next week.

The unwillingness of noobs to appreciate and observe the rules set by a vet host is also another reason why there are such big gap between the attendance of vets in games ie. Defcon games, you will not see vets attending those shoot em up games because they lack the structure basicly it's who ever have the biggest collection of hicap WINS! The CQB games by Tyson you'll see alot of vets attending because it's structured and controlled
How often do you see a post in the games section where a noob player can't get squared off and request an exception?? by the way telling a person who kindly bring extra gear without any rental fees so you can get squared up and not showing up for it is also uncool. the way I see it if I can make the effort to get squared up properly with my gear, guns etc why can't they?
Not all of us can get our stuff all at once hell I started with ski goggles, jeans and my JAC when I first started, but I made teh effort of getting my shit squared up ASAP I understand that there are other priorities in life that require your attention or funds that's why this is a hobby and it is a hobby for RESPONSIBLE persons.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by CARL

My personal prediction is as the economy sort's it self out over the next few years, things are going to vastly improve into another "Airsoft Golden Age".

This depends on the economy improving, and no more increases of restriction from CBSA or government, but don't count on that, if anything they will increase the restrictions.

it will never improve to sort it self out or be better unless the current new crop of players learn and respect the existing rules, Economy wise games now are a lot cheaper than those offered to us back in the days

Government restriction? well no matter how many times I've read about the sky is falling shit I can still get guns and play with my friends

increase in restrctions? I have to agree with you on this point but just because we have a large influx of new players and from what i've seen they are nothing but potential trouble, don't believe me all you have to do is look into youtube, some of the shit I see kids do with airsoft guns makes me wonder if they will ever get a chance to go pass puberty. it only take a few rotten apples to spoil the whole batch

[backspasm]

I have only been in this for a year or so, when I joined Lee's group, and started coming out to events. I now bang the recruitment drum to any airsofter/paintball willing to listen. I think part of the problem that hasn't been mentioned to a great extent is teams.

Most guys I have met that are not in a team (these are in their 20s) don't go to games (or likely follow through on sign-ups) because they don't really know many people well, and care less (if at all) if they flake. Granted some of these kids have their heads up their arses, I believe it matters very heavily to have a team of people you know to give the motivation to do the things mentioned. I live in Toronto, but have never gamed here since all the ww2 games are outside the gta. I would rather take an extra several hours of bus time hauling all my ww2 gear than go to a random game at which I know no one for half the price/effort (or maybe it's just me)

I have noticed in the AARs from games where it is random people rather than teams that they have more problems with idiocy. Is this at least somewhat right, or does more of it just get posted in those, and other hosts filter it out?

I would say we should have more introduction/show and tell days, but some time back when jayne had one (or was signed up to help?) no one posted in. I imagine the airsoft convention(s) help with this to some degree, but that is not what they are for.

Setting up a feedback system may not exactly be fair in many cases. I think hosts exchanging info on who flakes for no (good) reason is the best way to go. As an example, I attend living history events with the ww2 group that don't get posted here. At these events we do our best to recruit people (like blank shooters). So if I flake for a game here, yet go to several events that ware weekend long that are not posted here, all people see is the flake. The point is there are too many other games not posted here/posted elsewhere for the system to run smoothly and fairly.

So am I completely wrong/retarded? Anyone found they had more motivation once they joined a (somewhat stable) team? Does anyone else like pie? Is it really a long long way to Tipperary?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Like Pie

[coach]

mmmmmm pie.....