To all PTW users...

[bigbuzz666]

Hi all,

I bought a PTW a couple weeks ago. Now, I'm looking to use Lipo batteries for a couple reasons.

I am not really looking for advices but mostly to know what batteries/charger you use and what mod you have done to your gun (and the reason why you have chosen that battery/charger/mod). This way, I will make myself an idea...

Thanks for you help!

[FreelancerInc]

there are like 8 ptws on my team, they all use sanyo niimh batteries....its a ptw no real use for a lipo

[apparition]

if you want to change the stock on your gun to say a magpul CTR or something, then yes you may need to switch to lipos. i would recommend sending an email to doubletaptactical.ca(not sure what there actual email is). I know them personally and im sure they would answer your questions you had no problem.

[Daiviet]

There are a few PTW buffs on the boards, I know McGuyver used to be big on them and he knows them pretty well inside and out. Last I remember though he's done with airsoft, but maybe he'll be nice enough to answer some of your questions.

[bigbuzz666]

Originally Posted by apparition

if you want to change the stock on your gun to say a magpul CTR or something, then yes you may need to switch to lipos. i would recommend sending an email to doubletaptactical.ca(not sure what there actual email is). I know them personally and im sure they would answer your questions you had no problem.

Originally Posted by Daiviet

There are a few PTW buffs on the boards, I know McGuyver used to be big on them and he knows them pretty well inside and out. Last I remember though he's done with airsoft, but maybe he'll be nice enough to answer some of your questions.

I have asked to DDT, since my PTW comes from them. I got replied with good answers.

But what I'm looking for is to know what you guys use...

[Drunk_Albertan]

I run a shortened EL003 (I think thats the board's name) and a lipo with a Magpul CTR comercial spec stock.
Works well.
I like lipo's in my ptw faar more than Systema batteries.

[deltaop1]

Bonjour BigBuzz666

I prefer to use LiPO batteries in my PTW. I bought this type of battery, see this link. In my opinion the LiPO battery technology is the best.

The fit is tight but they do fit in the crane stock of the PTW. When removing the battery you should use your finger to push the battery out of the crane stock rather then pulling on the battery wires until the battery's plastic wrap smoothes out.

Good luck.

[ILLusion]

Ni-Cad is still the most robust battery technology out there in terms of charging error forgiveness and general abuse. It also provides the highest cold cranking power, which is why a lot of users still prefer it. It can also be charged at quite high rates, for quick charges.

Ni-MH is a bit more sensitive to temperature - it can be damaged at higher temperatures, and simply won't work at lower temperatures. However, they do not carry memory, which is a great feature for a lot of users, being able to just "set it and forget it." It is very low maintenance, besides care against temperature and slower charging rates. However, it's downside is the tendency to gain "memory."

Li-Po has huge cold cranking power as well, and also carries no memory, along with being able to work in very low temperatures - even lower than Ni-Cad. However, it is VERY sensitive to heat or shock, and can erupt violently if mistreated. So it's kind of a best of both worlds... with a major twist.

With all that said, users will make their own decisions on what technology to use, and I'm sure the OP has educated himself in this already.

In my personal opinion, if I were still using the original Crane stock, I would stick with the original Systema Ni-Cad packs. However, because my build uses a Magpul CTR Mil-Spec stock (and same for any other stock that can't hold a battery), I would switch to LiPo. I did a LOT of research to select the appropriate batteries for my different applications, and I suggest you do the same as well.

My current power setup is as follows:

- Custom machined buffer tube, with power plug cut-out
- Airsoft Surgeon miniaturized ECU (v2) (only fits 2008 models and newer) - allows me to collapse the stock almost completely with my current battery selection

Depending on the power cylinder I use, that choice will determine the battery I use. I'd spent my research comparing power output curves between varying Li-Po batteries versus the OEM spec batteries, and came to the following conclusions:

When using any cylinder that's M130 or WEAKER, use a 7.4v Li-Po, NO LESSER than 15C and NO GREATER than 20C.

When using an M150, use an 11.1v Li-Po, NO LESSER than 20C.

This research was based upon technologies existing at that time (2008-2009), and I've been using the following batteries:

- G&P 7.4v 1200mAh 15C
- G&P 7.4v 1200mAh 20C
- Intellect 11.1v 1200mAh 20C"+"

The reason why I set lower limit restrictions on the power (both in voltage, as well as in "C" rating), is simply so the pack can have enough juice to crank the spring. Due to the very sensitive nature of Lithium Polymer cells, demanding power output of them beyond their rating is a sure way to kill them and cause them to POTENTIALLY EXPLODE BESIDE YOUR FACE during use!

The reason why upper limits are set, is for the exact same reason why Systema implicitly states NOT to use their OEM spec 12v battery with the M90, M110 and M130 cylinders. It WILL provide too much power to the system in the long run, and can (and will) strip the expensive piston, gears, and potentially burn out the VERY expensive control boards. The PTW Users forum has quite a few users who've overpowered their guns which resulted in broken parts.

This setup has worked for me. YMMV.

[mcguyver]

I have worked with all the retail shortened EL-003 boards available. Here's what found:

Gen 1 Airsoft Surgeon boards lacked low-voltage protection, so when your battery ran low, the board burned the traces up for motor output. I still have a smoked one sitting on my bench for over 2 years now.

Gen 2 AS boards are better, and mostly that is what you see now, unless you buy a used one.

Tackleberry shortened board. This is by far the best one out there. It is the same size as the AS one, but keeps all Systema's factory electronics, and can be custom made to your specs if needed. It is about double the money, but who cares, it's a PTW.

Pretty much any stock other than a crane or one with some large storage needs to use LiPo. And, if you use LiPo and want to be able to collapse the stock, then you need a shortened EL-003. Some stocks like the UBR or PRS have a fixed buffer tube that has no direct access or easy removal with it installed correctly. There are modifications to be done. One thing I'm not a fan of is pulling the buffer cap to install the battery, it would be a last resort and other ways are better.

As far as using LiPo vs. other chemistries, I've always been a fan of NiCad. They are stable, pretty abuse-proof, but have a limited life span. I deal everyday with issues of reliabilty, so I naturally want to gravitate to whatever is most reliable and least likely to blow up. LiPo isn't there yet, but I'm going to try it with a UBR install on a PTW and reserve my decision until it is done. I'm pretty fussy about performance, and I can be a tough man to please sometimes.

Originally Posted by ILLusion

The reason why upper limits are set, is for the exact same reason why Systema implicitly states NOT to use their OEM spec 12v battery with the M90, M110 and M130 cylinders. It WILL provide too much power to the system in the long run, and can (and will) strip the expensive piston, gears, and potentially burn out the VERY expensive control boards. The PTW Users forum has quite a few users who've overpowered their guns which resulted in broken parts.

Actually, the reason is not "too much power", but rather the increased voltage leads to an increased cycle rate that would normally be offset by the increased load of the heavier spring in the M150, leading to realistic cycle rates. If you use an M130 with the factory 12V 1200mah battery, you get 17-18 rounds/second cycle rate instead of the normal 13-14. The biggest issue is that the mag has a hard time keeping up, especially if you use a heavy BB like a 0.30g. I have tried every combination of battery, BB and cylinder and found that FA fire with 12V and M90 was awful for misfeeding and chopping, M110 was not too bad and M130 is no problem at all. In fact, the M130/9.6V combo is the toughest load that the PTW can have, and if your gun is going to fail due to low voltage-excess current, it is probably going to be there. I have used the M130/12V many times without issue.

Another reason for the recommended 9.6V is that the 12V doesn't have as large a current reserve long-term, but you can still get 12 mags or a bit more with the 12v/M130 or about 20 mags with the 9.6V/M130 combo.

I do doubt that the increased cycle rate will lead to gear damage. With the exception of Gen 1-3 zinc alloy rack gear, every single rack gear failure I've seen has been as a result of failure of another component. I have never seen a damaged sector gear in a MAX gun, nor any other gear failure. I would not attribute any failure I have seen to increased cycle rate except for the old Gen 1-3 M90 and their alloy gears.

[ruinz00]

mcguyver hit the nail on the head about the li-ion battery. A higher C rating wont destroy stuff. It is the maximum sustained current that the battery can push. The battery may be able to handle a constant 40A load, but it can draw less. The power output of the battery is the C rating times the Ah rating. Every pack will have a higher burst rating, so that is why a small 1200mAh 15C battery can still power a PTW. It should put out 18A, but a PTW needs ~30A if I remember correctly.

I'm personally a bigger fan of LiFePo batteries. They have a lower energy and power density, but have a longer life span. The number I remember seeing is 2000 recharge cycles. I doubt it would be that high. Even 1000 would be nice compared to a li-ion. A thing to note, the battery voltage for a lifepo is a bit lower than a li-ion per cell. They output 3.3v per cell, so you can get 9.9v packs. It might be a bit high for a M130, but I don't know. I don't own a PTW, and I'm moving to gas guns so I won't check in my AEGs.

[ILLusion]

Yes, C rating represents the maximum discharge load, and in basic theory, shouldn't affect rate of fire.

However, in real world practice, it DOES affect rate of fire, as larger C rating cells have lower internal resistance of the cell chemistry present in the pack. Less internal resistance results in less energy being wasted and turned in to heat, but it also means a greater "bandwidth" is present for current to flow - all this ultimately yields higher rate of fire. It's not due to higher voltage barfing the flow of power out, but because the higher C pack allows the motor to be able to pull more juice in one shot than a but smaller C pack.

The exact same thing occurs regarding the rated capacity of the pack as well!

The same holds true with Ni-Cad cells (and less exaggerated, in Ni-MH cells as well) - a 1200mAh sub-C pack will yield much higher ROF and trigger response time than a 1200mAh A pack. Again, this is due to lower internal resistances within the cell itself. And again, the same thing with the capacity of the pack: A 1200mAh sub-C pack will have a slower ROF than a 2400mAh sub-C - even if voltage of the pack is EXACTLY the same. At the extreme end of the scale, an 8.4v 600mAh mini is painfully slow and underpowered compared to an 8.4v 2400mAh sub-C pack.
These similarities are present with Li-Po as well.

Damage with high ROF is much less likely when doing semi-auto firing, but if you're unleashing full auto bursts the majority of the time, then you risk higher chances of damage. The damage occurs not on the FIRST spin, but on the follow up cycles.

For what it's worth, I personally have not seen any gear damage either, but have seen more than a few racks with the first tooth or two snapped right off.