WA Wilson CQB SCW + Sherrif LRB = ?

[Adrian]

Any Canucks Manage to install a LRB into a SCW gun? The Sherrif website has instructions, but I don't read Japanese. Nor speak Japanese. I do like the food though.

[Gooseman]

avoid the Sheriff LRB like the plague!! It's horrible barrel in my experience. I've tinkered with a few and they are really inconsistent. They don't use rubber to produce bb spin, they use the edge of the barrel to produce bb spin!! It's really weird how they do it but it doesn't work very well at all. Maybe I wasn't installing it right but I fiddled with it like crazy and could never get it to shoot consistent. The bbs would fly all over the place, up down, left right.. horrible barrel....
It's a really old (failed) design and the only retailers that are carrying it are probably trying to get rid of old stock..

[spleen]

Does that mean you found yourself a Wilson CQB?

[Adrian]

Originally Posted by Gooseman

avoid the Sheriff LRB like the plague!! It's horrible barrel in my experience. I've tinkered with a few and they are really inconsistent. They don't use rubber to produce bb spin, they use the edge of the barrel to produce bb spin!! It's really weird how they do it but it doesn't work very well at all. Maybe I wasn't installing it right but I fiddled with it like crazy and could never get it to shoot consistent. The bbs would fly all over the place, up down, left right.. horrible barrel....
It's a really old (failed) design and the only retailers that are carrying it are probably trying to get rid of old stock..

I have heard that the QC varied. But also when you got one that was properly bored, it is far more consistent than "normal" (ie. rubber/o-ring-setscrew) hop-up designs.

[Primus]

Originally Posted by Gooseman

avoid the Sheriff LRB like the plague!! It's horrible barrel in my experience. I've tinkered with a few and they are really inconsistent. They don't use rubber to produce bb spin, they use the edge of the barrel to produce bb spin!! It's really weird how they do it but it doesn't work very well at all. Maybe I wasn't installing it right but I fiddled with it like crazy and could never get it to shoot consistent. The bbs would fly all over the place, up down, left right.. horrible barrel....
It's a really old (failed) design and the only retailers that are carrying it are probably trying to get rid of old stock..

Wow, my experience is the complete reverse of you. With my LRB installed my Vreaker is way more consistent, still not perfect but buttloads better than the shitty WA hopup system. Maybe Sheriff's QC is that horrible... Adrian, if you want I can check it out for you, I had no problem installing mine, I just had to break off a little tab on the part that connects loading chamber (not sure the right name) to the LRB barrel.

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by Gooseman

avoid the Sheriff LRB like the plague!! It's horrible barrel in my experience. I've tinkered with a few and they are really inconsistent. They don't use rubber to produce bb spin, they use the edge of the barrel to produce bb spin!! It's really weird how they do it but it doesn't work very well at all. Maybe I wasn't installing it right but I fiddled with it like crazy and could never get it to shoot consistent. The bbs would fly all over the place, up down, left right.. horrible barrel....
It's a really old (failed) design and the only retailers that are carrying it are probably trying to get rid of old stock..

That's funny, but I would suspect it's a problem with user installation or QC, not with the design. Many old-school "classic gas" users manage to get extremely long ranges using properly-installed Sherrif LRB's....fitted to an Asahi Sterling, users report getting out to 100+ yards in a virtually flat trajectory. BB weight also has a fair bit to do with it, though.

Lots of info on Sherrif LRB's at www.classicairsoft.net.

PS - not knocking your skills, Gooseman, just sharing what I know as a classic gas geek.

[MadMax]

I took a long hard look at WA hop up design and surmise that the reason they they suck is because the bb is preloaded into an oring shaped rubber retainer well ahead of the hop up nubbin.

In shooting, I think the bb inconsistently releases from the retainer and bounces off the hop up nubbin in different ways.

I can confirm that a bb set against the hop up nubbin before firing results in much more consistent performance.

As a test, I modified the nozzle body by press fitting a metal extension about 6mm long. The extension pushes the bb past the retainer area and just against the hop nubbin. A lengthened reed valve is necessary for proper functioning of the pneumatics.

Unfortunately the GBB is unable to load automatically with this modification. The lengthened nozzle interferes with bb extraction and loading from the mag. However, by dropping a bb in one at a time through the opening in the slide, one can take single shots which are very consistent. In this configuration, single shots fly about as consistently as my P90 or MK23 NBB. Very good range, but not combat effective because of the loading issues.

The purpose of this test was to determine if the retainer scheme used by WA is the source of their poor consistency.

I've contemplated a custom hop up body design. Modify the barrel configuration to move the hop up back by 6ish mm and remove the rubber retainer. Shift the whole thing back so a standard nozzle sets a bb against the hop up before firing. Unfortunately this requires a custom cast metal assembly and a completely different hop up adjustment.

I think one could sleeve a metal ring around the barrel and hop up similar to the SCW arrangement. Instead of using the current horizontal adjustment setup, tap a screw into the ring (bigger ring than the current design) which points upwards and butts against the barrel. Tightening the screw would pull the ring downwards and apply more force to the hop up.

This arrangement would require removal of the slide to access the adjustment screw through a thru hole in the bottom of the barrel ass'y, but at least the performance would be actually good. Besides, pick an ammo and make your adjustments once and it'll finally shoot well.

As to LRB, they're not that easy to find. I'd love to try one, but if they use the bb retention scheme that the stock arrangement uses, I'm sceptical.

[Gooseman]

Madmax,
You ever experiment with jamming a TM Hicapa barrel/chamber assembly into a KJW para frame? I tried it quickly and managed to shove the assembly onto my KJW Para frame and get it to fire consistenly. Since the KJW system doesn't use a protruding valve reed like WA systems, it cycles fine. The only thing is, the outer cosmetic chamber doesn't fit on the TM Hicapa inner chamber (no surprise there)... also, the fit between the loading nozzle and the inner chamber rubber isn't very air tight but it still shoots.

Regarding the Sheriff LRB, it does have a rubber bump keeping the bb pushed against the valve reed... so it'll never be as consistent as a TM.

I really don't know why WA just copy TM's blowback/hopup system... maybe it's a pride thing.

[MadMax]

It almost fits into a WA frame. However, the TM chamber cover doesn't use a linkage like the Hicapa. The hicapa uses a ramp face on the rear edge to pull the chamber cover down. I think it's possible to mod it to take a linkage though.

I did manage to get around the protruding reed valve though. You can flip the reed valve spring onto the other side of the valve so it pushes the valve rearwards. When the bb unplugs the barrel, the reed pops forward and cycles the slide. Pretty funny how you can do that. However, you do lose a lot of the WA gas efficiency. It's hard to get a full load of bbs out of the gun. With a slightly extended nozzle, you can push bbs past the retention feature, but not far enough to preset the bbs against the hop bucking

Too bad as the consistency is better, but not really as good as the TM Hicapa which sets the bbs against the nubbin.

[VinnyGT19]

I bought an already assembled SCW 1911a1 (the ver. 1 SCW) with a Sheriff LRB from 888 of http://www.honolulu888.com fame, and having taken it apart the other day, it looks like it requires a bit of cutting to the original SCW chamber. Basically, the normal cylindrical part of the chamber that holds the barrel (above the nub that holds the spring guide in place) has to be cut to accomodate the LRB where the outer diameter 'expands' (for lack of better term) so that it sits flush with the outer barrel. Not terribly descriptive, I know, but I will take pictures in a few days (I'm studying for an exam right now).

I haven't looked at the Sheriff page in awhile, but I think they wanted to sell you their Magna chamber (Shooters Design makes one too, to the tune of $55 or so, plus shipping from HK retailers like Den) and it also required the use of Magna series parts 8 and 80, IIRC.

When I first received my gun, I was definitely impressed with the range and consistency of the barrel over the SCW hop system and especially over the Magna hop (which IMHO is horrible). The amount of hop it provided was just right with 134a gas, it would float a Maruzen .30 gram bb to 180 feet. And by float I mean that the "effect" was amazing in itself; if you happened to be at the end of the 180 ft range, the bb's would be approaching you at what seemed to be an impossibly slow rate, but still flying somehow.

However, with increased use, it seems that the rubber 'barrel shroud' that Sheriff provides with their barrel either shrunk or became less pliable, and 134a was no longer strong enough to force the bb through the rubber ring and into the barrel (seems to be the same problem a few others were having in this thread: http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/...=sheriff%2Clrb ). Anyone know where to find this part? I think it should be the same as the part #10 on the SCW series that holds the bb. I've looked around a bit on the HK retailers but to no avail.

Propane will cycle my gun and force the bb through the rubber, but it also seems to increase the amount of hop so that .25's go skyward almost instantly, and .30's do too to a lesser degree most of the time. I say most of the time because it seems rather inconsistent as of late. My barrel seems to be exquisitely sensitive to the amount of lube present on the bb's, in the mag, and in the gas (if using store-bought taiwanese green); the lube builds up on the inside of the barrel and negates the spin. Wiping it clean with a q-tip removes the lube and sends it back to the other extreme. Out of desperation and boredom one day I tried 'titrating' the amount of lube built up in the barrel by heavily lubing my fill valves to see if I couldn't get decent results with .25's or .3's, but it seemed hit or miss in that some would get the full effect, while others got none.

Primus, what gas/bb combo seems to work best in your Vreaker? I wonder if part of my problem is that I'm not using a magna chamber, as would be found in a Vreaker. I am considering buying a KJW plastic Para to sacrifice for its Magna copy chamber (it'd work out to be the same price as buying just the Shooter's magna chamber and having it shipped here). Perhaps I can use it in the Para too for a cheap field gun. I would like to get this thing back to 100% because it was incredible when it worked. I can't say that I understood how it worked until I saw this diagram (bottom of page: http://www.classicairsoft.net/Articles/hopup/hop3.htm)

[Gooseman]

wow, you were using .30 gram bbs w/ 134a gas? I can imagine the velocity on that must be around sub 200 fps.. I think that's why you had a good trajectory with your sheriff LRB. I ran 0.2 gram bbs using propane and the bbs would often curve upwards right away.. Making for some insane banana shots around corners...