Soft vs Hard Bucking Sleeves

[Bar1975]

2 weeks ago i was using an M14 with a Guarder clear bucking.. the gun was shooting ~ 370-380FPS.. the accuracy and range was fantastic.

Sense then I upgraded my spring to an M120 (G&G spring). The gun is now shooting around 415-420 FPS and while the range has stayed pretty consistent i just can't seem to keep the bb flight path straight. Once it reaches out past 100-120FT the BB starts to curve in random directions. (despite dialing in the hop)

I am leaning towards the fact that with the increase in FPS the softer bucking may not be holding up. But i have also read that this is not the case when it comes to soft vs hard backings.. the benefit of a hard is really only in it's durability but all around a soft bucking is a better more accurate bucking (regardless of FPS)

I have a Systema Energy & PDI W-Hold bucking lined up and ready to try out but i wanted to get some of your opinions on why my accuracy went to crap after upgrading my spring? I really would like to get the accuracy back but keep the FPS sitting around where it's at now. (field limit is 400 but its a new spring and will settle into an acceptable FPS soon enough)

NOTE: i also upgraded from a stock air nozzle to an SHS Metal air seal nozzle.. i suppose this could be a cause as well but with the great increase in FPS i don't' believe its a compression issue.. maybe a nozzle/bucking mating issue?

So.. Bucking.. air nozzle.. or some combination of both is my issue ..

but what about this deal with harder buckings for higher FPS?

[pestobanana]

The main reason to use a harder bucking is to get more spin to lift a heavier BB. It should have very little to do with your issue, it sounds more like there is a misfit after you reassembled your gun.

[ThunderCactus]

The guarder clear is too soft, deforms too easily under pressure, and you might have worn right through it as well.
I never recommend them over 350fps, they wear too quickly at high fps

[KenTsui]

Did you get grease / oil on your bucking / barrel by accident? What weight and brand BB are you using?

[JDoorn]

sounds more like you need a heavier bb

[Bar1975]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

The main reason to use a harder bucking is to get more spin to lift a heavier BB.

This is interesting because with the new spring (and resulting increase in FPS) i started using .28's.. 2 weeks ago when it was shooting great i was using .25's

So it was shooting great using .25's and an M110 spring with the clear bucking..

Any recommendations on a harder bucking to use here? (no interest right now in going R-Hop or anything fancy like that) What about the RED Prometheus Air Seal Chamber Packing (Hard Type)?

[Forever_kaos]

I recently picked up the Maple Leaf rubber, so far so good. Nice and tight in a Modify hop unit, good consistency and good effects.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/upgrade-p...70-degree.html

Currently using the 80 Degree one in my polarstar STG, shooting ~420's at the moment.

See how long it holds up, only gone through 500 rounds to break it in a bit.

[KenTsui]

BB's curving in random directions sound like inconsistency with your bucking, barrel, or bb's. If the bb is not spinning along the correct axis, it will fly left or right. That's why I asked if you got oil on your hop-up or barrel by accident. It's also possible that the bucking you put in was damaged or maybe there's dirt or residue in your barrel. All that can cause an inconsistent or incorrect direction of spin which could explain you inaccuracy.

What brand bb? Changing the weight could mean different manufacturing process; therefore, quality. Double check the bucking and barrel to make sure they are not damaged or dirty.

Is your FPS consistent? That could change the range of the bb, which might look like the bb is curving down or dropping prematurely. Is your nozzle making a tight seal? Do the flashlight test. I know you are getting good fps, but an inconsistent fps could mean air leak.

As for bucking, I personally like the Madbull Red with the fish bone spacer. Good air seal and the spacer centers your bb.

[Chiba]

Lonex hard buckings are nice.

[Bar1975]

Originally Posted by KenTsui

BB's curving in random directions sound like inconsistency with your bucking, barrel, or bb's. If the bb is not spinning along the correct axis, it will fly left or right. That's why I asked if you got oil on your hop-up or barrel by accident. It's also possible that the bucking you put in was damaged or maybe there's dirt or residue in your barrel. All that can cause an inconsistent or incorrect direction of spin which could explain you inaccuracy.

What brand bb? Changing the weight could mean different manufacturing process; therefore, quality. Double check the bucking and barrel to make sure they are not damaged or dirty.

Is your FPS consistent? That could change the range of the bb, which might look like the bb is curving down or dropping prematurely. Is your nozzle making a tight seal? Do the flashlight test. I know you are getting good fps, but an inconsistent fps could mean air leak.

I cleaned the barrel the night before the game but after dumping a few hundred rounds at the shooting range im sure any oil issues would work themselves out. This issue was kind of acting up all day long..

BB Brand is an interesting thought.. it was the first time I've used .28's and i just grabbed a bag of G&G Bio's... probably not that great? (.25 G&G seem to be ok) I am using the same brand in my AK though and not having this issue at all. Don't think it's a BB Brand issue..

I'm going to throw the SYSTEMA bucking on and see what that does.. i've used it before with little success but this is the first set up i have that is a little over the 400FPS mark right now

[KenTsui]

All right, good luck!

I don't know much about bio BB's since my field doesn't require it but I heard they have limited shelf life. Possible bad batch?

[Drake]

Bio BBs generally don't perform as well as non-Bios, even when comparing within the same brand/weight (KA, MB, BBB, etc); the only ones I've found to be good performers are the Green Devil bios which I'll be testing more thoroughly this summer, but currently they're the only bios I'd consider using.

You're also getting virtually no tangible gains going from 380 to 410 fps: you'd be lucky to get a measurable 3-5 feet more out of it. 400 fps is a limit, not a goal. So it effectively sounds like you went from a setup you described as "fantastic" and threw it out the window for nothing except more stress on your mechbox and decreased battery life.

My advice to you is go back to the old setup: when you have something good, don't mess with it.

That being said, I question how "fantastic" the range and accuracy were if you were using .25g BBs. Go to heavier weights (.28, .30) if you want to increase range/accuracy. Your BBs curving upward is a sign of too much hop-up; pulling to the sides [consistently] something is misaligned, maybe you need a better spacer; going off in random directions between shots, could be inaccurate barrel, crappy BBs, too light a BB, etc.

[Bar1975]

Originally Posted by Drake

So it effectively sounds like you went from a setup you described as "fantastic" and threw it out the window for nothing except more stress on your mechbox and decreased battery life.

Hahaha.. yea that's about right.. but it's airsoft.. what good is a gun if you cant make it even better

I play only field games and try to get all my guns running with an m120 spring. I use primarily .28's and want my FPS a little higher for the range with those type of BB's.

All of my guns have SORBO pads and AOE corrected (most have reinforced pistons and gearsets as well) so im not too worried about stress on the gearbox so much

But yes.. to your point.. when things are great.. i'm still not satisfied.. i just like working on my guns that much i guess.