Daytona HPA Gun Kit Installation & Introduction

[yuzhao]

(Don't defend past actions; what is right today may be wrong tomorrow. Don't be consistent; consistency is the refuge of fools. - Adm. Rickover)

DISCLAIMER: Reading through this FAQ will likely answer many of the questions that you may have regarding this platform. However, it will not answer all of them and the answers may change as the group gains more experience with the platform. What works best for other people may not work the best for you and what works best for you may not work the best for other people. Show humility and try to use your best judgement. There’s always somebody smarter, faster, more experienced, and better than you out there.

Basic Introduction to the Daytona Gun HPA Platform?


So you think you want to buy a Daytona Gun weapons system? Great, please read on and make sure that what you are getting yourself into, is for you.First, be prepared to spend money. Daytona Guns systems are not cheap. They are expensive, they are for those who are not afraid of spending money to have the best. By the time you are done, with the right equipment be prepared to spend close to $1000 USD to have a fully operating system. If you have to max out your credit card to buy it, if you have to get a second job to afford it, if you are on food stamps and medicaid, stick with your AEG. All joking aside, they are not cheap as they require more than just a gun and some magazines.

Second, if you buy used, you are buying someone else’s problems. Remember that, yes you can get a great deal but make sure you do some research. Use the SEARCH function on this Facebook page after you read the FAQ. Learn where the problem areas are and make sure that when you buy a used gun that you ask questions to the original owner that cover those basic problem areas. Know that most problems can be fixed (Blackblitz or JM Airsoft) but it will cost money. Most problems have been seen on this site. Search is your friend, search first then post. Big boy (or girls) rules here.

Third, break the gun in. It takes 7K to 10K rounds. During break in your gun will chop bb's, have fliers, double feeding and have poor range and accuracy. As break-in continues all these things will improve. Start to add hop-up slowly after at least 6K rounds.

Fourth, lube your damn gun. Lube the bolt and rack it, lube will work its way in. Don't be cheap and under lube. LUBE YOUR GUN. If you think you've lubed it enough, especially during break in, lube it again. If you gun is acting strange, LUBE IT. DuPont Teflon Silicone Spray, or Get Some 1000 are your options, use another option and you do so at your own risk. Don't ask if this lube or that lube is ok. Use Get Some 1000 sold by Blackblitz or JM Airsoft directly.

Fifth, use good BBs. In the past, Tony and others used to recommend Bioval Bio BB's, but there has been a decrease in their quality control. Now it is recommended that you use Laser Dot, Goldenball, G&G or Valken. They are the best we've found. In terms of weight, use .25g or higher. If your gun is R-hopped, use a heavier weight BB. Break in the gun with the BBs you intend to use.DO NOT BREAK IN USING, OR JUST GENERALLY USE, CHEAP BBS. EVER. AND SAME RULE APPLY TO EVERYTHING, DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON YOUR DAYTONA!

Sixth, take care of your gun. Conduct the proper routine maintenance as if it was a real firearm. You can’t just “set it and forget it” like you could an AEG. However, if you conduct the proper maintenance, your setup will last you a long, long time. And lube your gun.
Daytona Gun Basics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPV-FTCv4ec
Basic Setup and Questions


A Basic Setup Consists of the Following Items:
Daytona Gun Kit
A Correct Donor body For Kit
Regulator & Air Line
HPA Tank

How Much Will This All Cost Me?
Daytona Kit (You will need to supply the externals): $500 USD
Redline WideBore SFR Air Rig: $170 USD
90cu/4500psi carbon fiber Tank: $140-180 USD (New)

Where Can I Buy These Things?
Daytona Gun Kit (price in CAD)- https://blackblitzairsoft.myshopify.com/...
Daytona Gun Kit Spare Parts: https://blackblitzairsoft.myshopify.com/...
Redline SFR Air Rig (Widebore, Single QD, Price in CAD) - https://blackblitzairsoft.myshopify.com/...

How Much Maintenance is Required?
Not much, just make sure you break in your gun, keep it lubed with an approved lubricant, and Loctite every screw you’re working with. Daytona Guns have recoil and recoil means screws will work themselves loose over time. A loose screw can end up jamming the mechanism, and damaging or even ruining parts.

What’s the Performance Like?
It really depends on the rifle. If tuned correctly, broken in and such, you should be getting 200-270ft. Use .28g BBs and above for best accuracy and range.

What’s the Recoil Like? Is it more than a GIM GBBR?
According to Chaz Loy and Nick Lynd, the recoil of a Daytona Gun M4 at 120psi is greater than stock GIM GBBRs (WE G39C, WE PDW, KWA LM4, King Arms GBBR, WE GBBR) and about the same as a WE M4 with the Blowback Armory Recoil Kit.
So far, Scar-H/MK17, L85 and FAL/SA58 have the heaviest recoil.


Supported Models


What kind of Daytona Gun kits can I get/have been made?Below is a list of the kits and bodies they are designed for. Others are certainly possible but will require cost to machine and custom design. For the easiest no hassle build please use the donor bodies listed below. Even those will take some modification.

AK (Uses steel donor bodies from LCT) LCT bodies are the best for conversions, but picky with magazines. Check under "Builds" why you should use the LCT. ONLY AEG BODIES! AK74u & RPK body DO WORK.
WE GBBR M4/HK416 (NO AEG BODIES)
VFC M27 IAR GBBR, 416C will not work unless you change to full length buffer or modify the recoil spring guide (No AEG Bodies)
G&P WOC/WA Spec GBBR M4, No AEG Bodies. Bolt Catch Available
FAL/SA58 (Echo1, CA FAL, or Matrix Bodies)
M249/MK46 (A&K, CA, Echo1). Will not fit G&P bodies because the G&P does not use the PGC-style gearbox.
M240 (Designed for A&K/Lancer/Matrix/Echo1 M240 body, works for all A&K spec body with modification)
M60/MK43 (Designed for A&K M60/MK43 body, works for all A&K spec body with modification)
PKM (Designed for A&K/Echo1 Body, works for all A&K spec body with modification)
G36 ( AEG G36 Body, Classic Army/JG. Do not quote in S&T/Ares, too much trouble, just get Classic Army body and save you 5 hrs of machining and shimming work)
SCAR L/MK16 WE GBBR SCAR L Body only
SCAR H/MK17 WE GBBR SCAR H body only
MSK/ACR WE MSK GBBR Body
KAC PDW WE GBBR Body Make sure you get the Gen 3 WE PDW since Gen 2 can't hold up to the force created by the kit. (Due to size of the bolt and barrel length, Muzzle velocity will be generally lower than other daytona gun kit)
KAC SR-25 Kit ARES M110 SASS Body. ( Limited 15 Kits)
L85 Fit into G&G L85A2 or Army R85/86 Body (Does not work in ICS & WE Body, dont bother asking)

What kind of Daytona Gun kits have been but are not being made?
UZI (project pending, magazine source issues)
MP5 (SRC Steel Body) Discontinued. However, VFC Mp5 kit under R&D
Galil (Limited Run) Discontinued
M14 (Scrapped Due to Bolt Issues) (Pending)
AUG (Pending, prototype trigger is easy to fail)

All Models nowadays come with Steel Bolt except CA G36 Kit.
G36 Kit uses oversized aluminium bolt because polymer body cannot bear the recoil of steel bolt.

G&P WOC/WA Spec M4 Kit Improvement:
Functional Bolt Catch works for KWA ERG 60rd Mag
Shorten Bolt with reduced coils recoil spring to increase reliability as well as lower the ROF close to RS.
Reinforced Airshaft prevents collar from snapping off.

A&K/CA M249 Kit Improvement:
Gen1
Gen2 with Brass Hopup unit
Gen3 with Steel Bolt, top weight removed
Gen4 C-clip Hopup unit design, tension spring no longer needed

LCT AK kit improvement:
The current generation is Generation 4.
Gen 1
Gen 2 - Improved Hop-Up Screw
Gen 3 - Larger Bolt Tank (increases velocity and reliability, prevents jamming)
Gen 4 - One-Piece Bolt Carrier, Longer Recoil Spring & Spring Guide Rod
Common Builds


All installation guides are under product description on Blackblitz Airsoft main website.
Additional tutorials and proTips are linked as follow:
http://daytonasystem.com/bbs/index.p...ation-tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTK...XnsXWUlK0D0VYA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgG...IO9EaMF83S52YA

M4 BuildsThe M4 is ONLY to be used on WE or non 1:1 WA/G&P GBBR bodies (or on a VFC 2015 GBBR, using the VFC 416 kit). Please do not even ask about AEG or a King Arms body. While the conversion CAN be done on a King Arms, We will no longer do them due to the fact that I have to re-machine the a lot of parts to fit it and it is very hard on tooling. And it will cost much more than buy a new WE/G&P/VFC GBBR body. Use the SEARCH function and you can see it in operation.

HK416 Builds
HK416 can be built, either using the VFC 416 kit on a GBBR VFC body, or on a WE 888/416, using the WE M4 kit.

AK Builds
The AK can be built on Cyma and LCT bodies, but be aware that some bodies are better than others. LCT bodies are the best for conversions, but picky with magazines. Every other model than LCT needs to have it's outer barrel cut and threaded in a lathe. The E&L bodies are too wide on the ID of them, but you can make them work with some shims. Blackblitz or JM Airsoft will not do E&L installs for you, so this is an on your own installation.

Pro Tip: Don't cheap out. Blackblitz or JM Airsoft won't help if you try to do a conversion on another body than LCT unless you pay him great money for the machine time. If you still try to use another body, you're going to need machine help to make it work. If you need to ask, you're not suited to make the conversion. So get the LCT body and save yourself A LOT of trouble!

FAL Builds
The FAL can be built on the Echo1, CA, or Matrix body. Classic Army is highly recommended. Awesome, just simply awesome and save your headache!

M249 Builds
The 249 can fit anything A&K/CA Spec. NO, it will not work in the G&P as the G&P feeds completely different than a standard 249. If you intend to install it into something other than what its original design was for, it is your risk.

G36 Builds
The G36 will work with almost any Classic Army and JG. Please no S&T/Ares Bodies, machining cost will be much higher than the bodies themselves.

SCAR-L Builds
The SCAR-L kit fits in the WE SCAR-L body. No modifications needed if it's the open bolt version.


SCAR-H Builds
The Scar-H kit fits the WE SCAR-H body. Only modifications needed are a hopup hole drilled, hole through the grip for airline drilled. basically same as Scar-L.

WE MSK Builds
The MSK/ACR kit is made ONLY for the WE MSK GBBR. PTS or A&K will NOT work.

WE PDW Builds
WE PDW can be installed in the Gen 2 but the body won't hold. Get a Gen 1 (good luck) or a Gen 3 (the newest generation). These are confirmed to work 100% with the kit.

Inner Barrels
Daytona Guns use standard AEG inner barrels. 6.08mm diameter inner barrels are recommended. Use Brass or Steel inner barrels. The aluminum inner barrels are being bent due to the pressure points the set screws put on the inner barrel by the hop-up and cause jams from hell. Do not use barrels that has ID smaller than 6.03mm.Grip Lines


Break-in


Why do I need to do it?
The Daytona Gun kits come from Blackblitz right out of the mill. Therefore, the parts in the kit aren't 100% fitted to each other along the donor body. The break in progress acts as a fitting progress where all the part are ground to each other, shaping a perfect surface between them. Like your dearly cars and trucks. There is no way of using a grind paper to do this, you need to shoot with it for it to be perfect. This is why you might have chopped BBs, flyers and so on during the break in progress and it's also why it's important to lubricate well during the break in period.
The hop up bucking is made out of real rubber, not silicone like many AEG buckings. This also have to be ground down by BBs to get the perfect surface and to make your BBs go where you want them to go. You will also have to soften the bucking up in the air-seal section of it and this is why you need BBs in the break in process. Double feed and chopped BBs are also common in this break in process. Boiling them in hot water for no more than 10 minutes will help soften the buckings.
To be on the sure side: NEVER take a shortcut in the break in process. This will bite you in the ass later because you didn't do it properly.
Lube during the break in. No, that little spray you just did after reading this is not enough. DRENCH THE WHOLE GODDAMN GUN IN LUBE. Are you having problems still? MORE LUBE!

Note: The break in ain't something you do over 3 Hicap magazines. A vast majority need to put at least 8000 rounds through their system to get rid of the chopped BBs, flyers and whatnot. So don't complain if you have chopped BBs until you've put at least 10000 rounds through it.




What Lube should I use?
GetSome 1000 is highly recommended, it does all you need and will not bite your rubber upDuPont Teflon Silicone Spray and LPS1 also works, if you do not have access for GetSome 1000.


Spare Parts

Where can I get them?
Many parts, such as O-rings, can be acquired at regular hardware stores and some can be made with a lathe and/or CNC machine.
Directly from parts dealer at https://blackblitzairsoft.myshopify..../Daytona-Parts https://www.facebook.com/DaytonaDK/?fref=ts
McMaster-Carr is a great place for ordering air line parts such as O-rings and Fittings.
The M249 kit have a variety of screws but the most common one is M4 x 0.7, 8mm in length.General O-ring size for AR platform: valve id 5.8x wd 1.9mm x2pc



General Sizing:
Valve id 5.8x wd 1.9mm x2pc
Valve pin 2x1(x1), 2x1.5mm(x1)
Valve cover 5x1.5mm x1pc
Bolt tank 5.8x1.9 1pc
Bolt tank spacer 5.8x1.9 1pc / 9.3x2.4 mm 2pc
Rhop source material(s):
http://www.mcmaster.com/#5041K54
(This is silicone tubing. If you use this in your DG, clean out your hop up unit with rubbing alcohol religiously after lubricating your gun. Swells in contact with the old lube)
http://www.mcmaster.com/#5186t15/
(Tygon/PVC tubing. Soft, resistant to lubricants, only available with 1.5 mm walls)
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9776t29
(EPDM tubing, this is the material used in HS5 patches, swells in contact with GetSome)


Air Systems

What Are the Basic Components I Need?
You need an Air Tank, Regulator, and Air Hose.
What Kind of Tank Should I Get?
If you have easy access to 4500psi fills, get a 4500psi tank as it provides more shots per bottle than a 3000psi bottle of the same CuI capacity. Also, they tend to be lighter as they are carbon-fiber or fiberglass-wrapped aluminum rather than just aluminum.

Can I use CO2?
Yes, but it is recommended that you stick with HPA.

Can I use an SLP tank?
No. SLP tanks do not offer enough output flow for a DG.
Note: Airflow and pressure are not the same thing. They affect each other but are not the same.

Daytona Integrated Grip Lines
(DIGLs)Amped airsoft sells DIGLs. They provide more air flow than the standard DG air tube option.

Dual tanks?
Yes, there is an option to use two tanks in one setup. This is most suitable for support gunners who use a lot of bbs and air but it works with any system.There are three options:
Get the Dual Redline firebase directly from Amped. Remember that you also need the single QD hose since it comes with the dual one.
With the second option, you just rearrange the parts so it look like the dual from Amped where everything comes pre-fitted.


Magazines and Ammunition


Which Brand of BBs Should I Use?
The current consensus is that Laser Dots are the way to go. HPA BB, G&G and Taiwan Made Valken also make great BBs that hold up to the Daytona system.
Which Brand of BBs Should I NOT Use?Avoid Bioval, Elite Force, and no-name (Matrix) BBs. Some Valken weights have been known to have issues.

What Kind of Magazines Can I Use?
Any AEG mags for your model. Some guns that use a GBBR body may need some filing and adjustments to fit well in the magwell.
General M4 platform:
-PTS EPM mags, KWA ERG mags and G&P stanmags fit just fine. Goal is to find the best fit mags and stick with it.
SCAR-H:
VFC Scar-H AEG mags, combined with SuperFeed spring for best feeding.
FAL:
Classic Army FAL/SA58 mags
M110 SASS (SR-25):
A&K SR-25 AEG mags or G&P SR-25 Mags
LMGs:
Mag brand mags are tested to be best fit box mags for LMGs.
PKM, M60 & M240, stick with stock box mag, you may try to find a stronger motor for better feeding.

SuperFeed replacement magazine springs are recommended if you’re having trouble with feeding. They can be purchased at Black Blitz Airsoft or JM Airsoft if you’re in Europe. They are compatible with most midcap magazines.
https://blackblitzairsoft.myshopify....ring-pack-of-3

Americans can purchase SuperFeed Springs from Amped Airsoft or Brill Armory :
https://ampedairsoft.com/maple-airso...ngs-pack-of-3/

http://www.brillarmory.com/index.php...roducts_id=791
KWA/PTS ERG/RM4 PMAGs can also be used with the specially made bolt catch for bolt lock back on last round (for M4 and PDW models only).

ProTip: If the magazines and BBs work perfectly for you, DO NOT change, keep using the same brand same model as it will not give you headache.


Basic Troubleshooting Tips

Just as an FYI, before calling, emailing, PM'ing, or posting about a Daytona build or one that is not cycling, feeding, working on full auto/semi auto, or just all around problems...here goes:
LUBE IT with Get Some 1000. Lube the feed nipple, bolts, damn near everything!
Check your mags to the body. Some mags are no good and may only need some minor filing to release the bb lever to feed them.
Check your regulators. WE ONLY recommend using a Redline SPR. Actually, We only recommend the ones that with Widebore and Single QD. IF you get one from Amped, which is fine, know that it "may" not function. This is NOT a problem with Redline or the regulator. It is a problem with air flow and the QD that is on the red to line is restricting free flow on Daytonas. In the past, TNKgun had sent a TON of people to Jim Bud to get the new hose. Honestly, it saves you money to just buy it from DG Dealers, but whatever.
Check how the levers operates.

Search in the group. Your question has a high chance of being asked several times over years. Search is your best friend, save your time and effective.
Did I mention LUBE them with GetSome 1000 Spray? DO IT often, do it again!

Authorized Dealers of Daytona Gun System:

Blackblitz Airsoft [DG kits, DG parts, Service & Installation, Air Systems] (ON, Canada)
JM Airsoft DG specialist [DG kits, DG parts, Service & Installation] (Denmark, EU)
HPAirsoft.eu [DG kits, Service & Installation] (Poland, EU)
Taktik Airsoft [DG kits, Service & Installation] (QC, Canada)


Daytong Gun Discussion & B/S/T forum:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/index.php?p=/

Installation Guides:

G&P WOC/WA Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...de-2016#latest
A&K/CA/Matrix M249 Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...eo-tips#latest
WE KAC PDW Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...n-guide#latest
CA/JG G36 Series Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...n-guide#latest
Ares M110 SASS (Knight's SR-25) Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...n-guide#latest
A&K/Matrix PKM Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...n-guide#latest
WE SCAR-L & SCAR-H Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...n-guide#latest
WE M4/HK416 Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...e-video#latest
G&G/Army L85 Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...on-guide?new=1
A&K/LT/Matrix M240 Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...on-guide?new=1
CA/Echo1 FAL/SA58 Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...on-guide?new=1
LCT AK Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...on-guide?new=1
WE MSK Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...on-guide?new=1
VFC M27 IAR / HK416 Installation Guide:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...on-guide?new=1
A&K M60 Kit:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...n-guide#latest
ProTips & Mods:

Scar Kit Trigger Box Installation(Similar on all kits):
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...416-msk#latest
M4/HK416/MSK/PDW Fire Selector cut for Semi Fire Function:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...msk-pdw#latest
Daytona Gun General Theory and Internal Disassembly & Reassembly
http://daytonasystem.com/bbs/index.p...assembly?new=1
Daytona Gun Maintenance:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...tenance#latest
Why use GetSome 1000 as lubircant?
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...duction#latest
Why use Redline SFR Single QD Widebore Rig?
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...or-test#latest
How to rHop your DG barrel:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...ona-gun#latest
How to build Trigger Mod(Improving consistency and shorten trigger pull):
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...ger-mod#latest

Guides & Tips in Various Languages:

Tuto Montage Hk416 - M4 We Gbbr, Du recul violent, pas de dégazage, des mags AEG.... en HPa:
http://www.daytonasystem.com/bbs/ind...g-en-hpa?new=1