Proposal to the community - CASRDC

Lisa · February 1st, 2006, 14:09

Cleaned the chaff, warned both parties involved. Keep it on topic.

While helping resolve a transaction, I have asked field owners to ban the offending player for nondelivery. It's a tactic that can work, providing the player isn't exiting airsoft already.

GraveTech · February 1st, 2006, 14:53

Thank you Lisa.

Lisa · February 1st, 2006, 15:03

People have been banned for abusing the classifieds.

In a trade if both parties are not satisfied they should return the goods, if one person got screwed then the other should make it right.

odp · February 1st, 2006, 17:30

Get upstanding members of the community to serve as an escrow service.

Lisa · February 1st, 2006, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by odp

Get upstanding members of the community to serve as an escrow service.

That's a nice idea but not really feasable unless you're willing to pay for it. I considered starting such a thing but I don't have time to be calling UPS/Fedex/Purolator/Running to the post office + have a second paypal and bank account (I wouldn't want other peoples money getting mixxed in with mine). Plus I doubt people want to pay double the shipping plus a $15 handling fee + 5%/what ever it costs to send the direct deposits.

It would be different if I didn't have a full time job but I do so it's not.

odp · February 1st, 2006, 20:53

Never said you had to do it.

That said, someone would obviously charge for it, but consider it buying peace of mind.

lt_poncho · February 1st, 2006, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunny

It's true what Poncho said though, people get so put off by dealing with dishonest people that they often prefer to just walk away, even quit airsoft altogether. In that case, there really is nothing left but court.

On that note - was there ever a total damage assessment to the Props Canada fiasco? How many players quit/left? # of $$ lost? Man-hours spent trying to moderate and deal with the issues? $ spent in telephone conversations?

I would wage that we don't want to know those sorts of numbers.

Skruface · February 2nd, 2006, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lt_poncho

On that note - was there ever a total damage assessment to the Props Canada fiasco? How many players quit/left? # of $$ lost? Man-hours spent trying to moderate and deal with the issues? $ spent in telephone conversations?

I would wage that we don't want to know those sorts of numbers.

When I was still in on it, we ballparked (IIRC) about $38,000 when we got folks to post what they ordered and how much they paid. Dunno how much of that is still outstanding, as I ceased to care the moment I got what's mine. All it took for me was one phone call....I told him what his home address was, and told him if I didn't have my money or my gun in 3 days I was coming to town to break his legs lol. I had the gun in 2 days...shipped Express TNT.

made Man · February 2nd, 2006, 00:38

Still, i dont see why this whole Airsoft Mafia (it wont work otherwise) thing is needed. Only those who are not planning on screwing up will sign up anyways. It's kinda like all those gun laws restricting law abiding citizens who will not do anything bad anyways.

SockMonkey · February 2nd, 2006, 01:15

+1 to that.

Mysteryfish · February 2nd, 2006, 02:00

Would this work sortof like the Trader Rating system?

Like a little tag somewhere that indicated that you were a signed and participating member of this system?

That'd be awesome.

It'd be nice to be able to engage in a sale with someone who you knew right off the bat was either willing or not willing to participate in that kind of action.

It might give you an idea of who was really (in the long run) a reputable, safe person to buy from.

I have a feeling it'd be one of those things that would never have to be used if it was working properly...

GraveTech · February 2nd, 2006, 11:05

Mysteryfish: That is an aspect I never thought of, but it begs teh question, how would you enforce it after a bad trade or sale, if one person is not willing to participate. If it was the one with the tag, you could take it away and they may have troubles doing deals down the road but that would not solve a dispute. This begs further discussion.

lt_poncho · February 2nd, 2006, 14:50

If you want to start something like this – you need to identify what the requirements are. Then build an objective, or a scope and build a process of how this will be done. It might not be the BEST process initially, but it is a MEANS that is open to correction and guidance. Who would be affected by this? The stakeholders who actively trade $10,000 aprox. a month via the buy and sell on ASC.

I think if there was more attention to what a buyer or seller needs, perhaps a commonality can be found, and as a direct result, better transactions, less disappointments, and less dirty laundry threads that get locked before they get good.
Perhaps a little more accountability to the community might change the mindset where ASC is ‘full of dumbasses’ and not worth it’s influence because it ‘doesn’t matter’. If anything this should be leading by example, not turning players away in disgust.

Lisa · February 2nd, 2006, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by odp

Never said you had to do it.

That said, someone would obviously charge for it, but consider it buying peace of mind.

I'm just saying what would be involved in such a service, it would be pretty much a full time job.

Mysteryfish · February 3rd, 2006, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraveTech

Mysteryfish: That is an aspect I never thought of, but it begs teh question, how would you enforce it after a bad trade or sale, if one person is not willing to participate. If it was the one with the tag, you could take it away and they may have troubles doing deals down the road but that would not solve a dispute. This begs further discussion.

Fair enough... I hadn't gone to the length of considering how to tie an individual to the [figurative] contract they're signing into when they become a participant, but I guess it'd be a necessity to enforce the system. Without risk of punishment for backing out of it, it wouldn't be much more than a superficial label...

Also, with respect to just removing the tag - I suspect that becoming a 'member' per se, would involve more than a text tag. Surely a list of members could be kept...

Anyhow:
I just saw this as an interesting way to augment the buy/sell forum, since both sales venues would still exist:

1 - The traders who are not interested in/not afraid of dealing without the system

2 - The other individuals, who either trade risky goods or expensive investments, or who have been scammed in the past and want the extra security without having to give up the convenience of the buy/sell. Or those who simply want to be involved because it could be a great way to make your goods and sales more attractive (keeping in mind that you'd be basically guaranteeing that you're a good person to deal with).

I basically meant to show my support for something that might grow out of this idea. Not even just for myself, since I don't trade or buy much anymore, but also because ASC is really the heart of airsoft in Canada, and as far as I can tell, remains one of the best places to get things that would otherwise be much harder to come across.

Even if it isn't feasable right now, trying to making it an even safer, more reputable venue can't really be a bad idea.

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February 1st, 2006, 14:09	#16
Lisa Looking for form T-whatev Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trenton	Cleaned the chaff, warned both parties involved. Keep it on topic. While helping resolve a transaction, I have asked field owners to ban the offending player for nondelivery. It's a tactic that can work, providing the player isn't exiting airsoft already. __________________ May you live in interesting times. ASCMART, your smart choice

February 1st, 2006, 15:03	#18
Lisa Looking for form T-whatev Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trenton	People have been banned for abusing the classifieds. In a trade if both parties are not satisfied they should return the goods, if one person got screwed then the other should make it right. __________________ May you live in interesting times. ASCMART, your smart choice

February 2nd, 2006, 00:38	#24
made Man Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vansterdam	Still, i dont see why this whole Airsoft Mafia (it wont work otherwise) thing is needed. Only those who are not planning on screwing up will sign up anyways. It's kinda like all those gun laws restricting law abiding citizens who will not do anything bad anyways. __________________ You dont choose who you love, love chooses you; and that little fucking son of a bitch sticks itself to your face like the godless bloodsucking bastards in Alien and refuses to let go until it has drained your soul and left you an empty shell of a human being. I am worth $2,106,266.00 on HumanForSale.com <axel026> i need help please <^cell^> do you have an appointment? <axel026> im french <^cell^> i see... thats a terrible disorder

February 1st, 2006, 14:53	#17
GraveTech Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	Thank you Lisa.

February 1st, 2006, 17:30	#19
odp Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver	Get upstanding members of the community to serve as an escrow service.

February 1st, 2006, 20:53	#21
odp Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver	Never said you had to do it. That said, someone would obviously charge for it, but consider it buying peace of mind.

February 2nd, 2006, 01:15	#25
SockMonkey Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Vancouver	+1 to that.

February 2nd, 2006, 02:00	#26
Mysteryfish Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: North Vancouver, B.C.	Would this work sortof like the Trader Rating system? Like a little tag somewhere that indicated that you were a signed and participating member of this system? That'd be awesome. It'd be nice to be able to engage in a sale with someone who you knew right off the bat was either willing or not willing to participate in that kind of action. It might give you an idea of who was really (in the long run) a reputable, safe person to buy from. I have a feeling it'd be one of those things that would never have to be used if it was working properly...

February 2nd, 2006, 11:05	#27
GraveTech Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	Mysteryfish: That is an aspect I never thought of, but it begs teh question, how would you enforce it after a bad trade or sale, if one person is not willing to participate. If it was the one with the tag, you could take it away and they may have troubles doing deals down the road but that would not solve a dispute. This begs further discussion.

February 2nd, 2006, 14:50	#28
lt_poncho Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: GTA	If you want to start something like this – you need to identify what the requirements are. Then build an objective, or a scope and build a process of how this will be done. It might not be the BEST process initially, but it is a MEANS that is open to correction and guidance. Who would be affected by this? The stakeholders who actively trade $10,000 aprox. a month via the buy and sell on ASC. I think if there was more attention to what a buyer or seller needs, perhaps a commonality can be found, and as a direct result, better transactions, less disappointments, and less dirty laundry threads that get locked before they get good. Perhaps a little more accountability to the community might change the mindset where ASC is ‘full of dumbasses’ and not worth it’s influence because it ‘doesn’t matter’. If anything this should be leading by example, not turning players away in disgust.

Proposal to the community - CASRDC

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