Q's on upgrading a CA M-16

VADER · February 9th, 2006, 17:25

Purchasing a Classic Army M-16 next week. In my area/group we have a 450FPS limit (with a 50' plus engagement range). This is my plan: Systema bore-up kit w/silent piston, Systema M130 spring and tightbore barrel. I've been told that the gears & mechbox should handle the above. Will a 9.6v, large sub C battery pack be sufficient or should I go 10.8v? Are the stock bushings/spring guide/tappet plate/air nozzle/hop-up system good enough or what is your recommendation(s)? I want to stay under 450FPS & still have good range & accuracy. Not too concerned with ROF. I am a little concerned with the M130 & may go with the M120 but want to be SURE that I've got enough power to move the bore-up assy. Also, I plan to buy a 650mm barrel (cover excess length w/mock silencer) and chrono & cut barrel length aproximately every 10mm until I acheive little difference in FPS as I assume I'll be experiencing "suck back" until I get around 550mm or so. Please tell me where my plan is right & where it's wrong & what experience you've had with these components. Your input is very much appreciated!

Kid · February 9th, 2006, 17:37

stock bushings/spring guide/tappet plate/air nozzle/hop-up system

Bushings, spring guide MUST be upgraded.

I recomend you get a 110m spring instead. 350-400FPS.
That will be fine. If you get the 130, you will spend hundreds on the first time upgrade, then more and more over time as things break.

That will not do, I highly recomend that you go with a 110m or a 120m ABSOLUTE max. Also, is the rule for semi only?

If you do decide to go with a 130, I recomend you do not go higher than 9.6v, replace all the upper mech parts, bushings too, and put in torque up gears, from Systema.

VADER · February 9th, 2006, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid

stock bushings/spring guide/tappet plate/air nozzle/hop-up system

Bushings, spring guide MUST be upgraded.

I recomend you get a 110m spring instead. 350-400FPS.
That will be fine. If you get the 130, you will spend hundreds on the first time upgrade, then more and more over time as things break.

That will not do, I highly recomend that you go with a 110m or a 120m ABSOLUTE max. Also, is the rule for semi only?

If you do decide to go with a 130, I recomend you do not go higher than 9.6v, replace all the upper mech parts, bushings too, and put in torque up gears, from Systema.

Thanks for your recommendation. And yes, we can go full auto, 50' plus. So the stock bushings & spring guide don't cut it? Also, does the stock spring guide have a bearing and is it metal?

Kid · February 9th, 2006, 21:29

I HIGHLY recommend you go with a 110m for at least.. 5 games?

After that.. and you have tried the guns out, check what the other guns average at, ask their opinions, then decide if you want to spend the money to go to a 120 or 130.

DO IT NOW!!

ze641 · February 9th, 2006, 21:59

the stock spring guide is plastic, so it has to go if you are gettin a 130m spring.

Goldman · February 9th, 2006, 22:18

Stock bushings shoudl be relaced on ANY AEG, even stock ones. They have a nasty tendency to warm, causing your gears to misalign, and chew themselves to iddy biddy bits.

Goldman · February 9th, 2006, 22:19

Erm, Wiat a minute, stokc CA bushings should be metal right? I know TM is plastic, and possiby ICS. However if you already have Metal bushiings installed in the box, your okay.

mcguyver · February 10th, 2006, 01:54

If this CA is new, then it should have either 7mm bushings (metal) or bearings installed from factory. From what I hear, plastic spring guide though. In my opinion, I would try to limit yourself to around 400 fps if you want to get max life and usability out of your AEG. The real world difference in range between 400 and 450 fps is minimal (a few feet at best), but the differences in stress on your mechbox and internals is HUGE.

I've de-tuned some really hot guns from 475 fps to 390 fps and noticed little range difference but life expectancy will have gone up immensely.

Your idea of increased cylinder capacity in conjunction with a tightbore will give you better accuracy and should give you more consistant fps. Both of which are good things.

If your doing the work yourself and don't really know your way around a mechbox, remember that the quality of your parts is only 10% of the upgrade, with workmanship and attention to detail being 90%. Shimming and lubrication are THE most important aspects of mechbox assembly and higher fps guns need much more attention.

Good luck.

Mantelope · February 10th, 2006, 02:23

Keep in mind of course that the boreup kit is only useful if you're using extreme barrel lengths, i.e. 650mm. Anything less and you'll be getting better consistency from a regular full cylinder.

VADER · February 10th, 2006, 13:03

Thanks to all of you that have given your input thus far. Has anyone had experience with the bore-up set up in conjunction with longer-than-stock, tightbore barrels? In other words, will a 550mm be a better match with the bore-up or will a 650mm still work well? (I can't seem to get anyone to agree on this). Thanks.

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February 9th, 2006, 17:25	#1
VADER Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: in my own little world	Q's on upgrading a CA M-16 Purchasing a Classic Army M-16 next week. In my area/group we have a 450FPS limit (with a 50' plus engagement range). This is my plan: Systema bore-up kit w/silent piston, Systema M130 spring and tightbore barrel. I've been told that the gears & mechbox should handle the above. Will a 9.6v, large sub C battery pack be sufficient or should I go 10.8v? Are the stock bushings/spring guide/tappet plate/air nozzle/hop-up system good enough or what is your recommendation(s)? I want to stay under 450FPS & still have good range & accuracy. Not too concerned with ROF. I am a little concerned with the M130 & may go with the M120 but want to be SURE that I've got enough power to move the bore-up assy. Also, I plan to buy a 650mm barrel (cover excess length w/mock silencer) and chrono & cut barrel length aproximately every 10mm until I acheive little difference in FPS as I assume I'll be experiencing "suck back" until I get around 550mm or so. Please tell me where my plan is right & where it's wrong & what experience you've had with these components. Your input is very much appreciated!

February 9th, 2006, 22:18	#6
Goldman Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	Stock bushings shoudl be relaced on ANY AEG, even stock ones. They have a nasty tendency to warm, causing your gears to misalign, and chew themselves to iddy biddy bits. __________________ Maybe you'll find someone else to help you. Maybe black mesa... THAT WAS A JOKE, ha ha, fat chance. My Buy/Sell 1337ness rating

February 9th, 2006, 22:19	#7
Goldman Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	Erm, Wiat a minute, stokc CA bushings should be metal right? I know TM is plastic, and possiby ICS. However if you already have Metal bushiings installed in the box, your okay. __________________ Maybe you'll find someone else to help you. Maybe black mesa... THAT WAS A JOKE, ha ha, fat chance. My Buy/Sell 1337ness rating

February 9th, 2006, 17:37	#2
Kid Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Moose Jaw, SK	stock bushings/spring guide/tappet plate/air nozzle/hop-up system Bushings, spring guide MUST be upgraded. I recomend you get a 110m spring instead. 350-400FPS. That will be fine. If you get the 130, you will spend hundreds on the first time upgrade, then more and more over time as things break. That will not do, I highly recomend that you go with a 110m or a 120m ABSOLUTE max. Also, is the rule for semi only? If you do decide to go with a 130, I recomend you do not go higher than 9.6v, replace all the upper mech parts, bushings too, and put in torque up gears, from Systema.

February 9th, 2006, 21:29	#4
Kid Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Moose Jaw, SK	I HIGHLY recommend you go with a 110m for at least.. 5 games? After that.. and you have tried the guns out, check what the other guns average at, ask their opinions, then decide if you want to spend the money to go to a 120 or 130. DO IT NOW!!

February 9th, 2006, 21:59	#5
ze641 Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United States- California	the stock spring guide is plastic, so it has to go if you are gettin a 130m spring.

February 10th, 2006, 01:54	#8
mcguyver Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Northern Alberta	If this CA is new, then it should have either 7mm bushings (metal) or bearings installed from factory. From what I hear, plastic spring guide though. In my opinion, I would try to limit yourself to around 400 fps if you want to get max life and usability out of your AEG. The real world difference in range between 400 and 450 fps is minimal (a few feet at best), but the differences in stress on your mechbox and internals is HUGE. I've de-tuned some really hot guns from 475 fps to 390 fps and noticed little range difference but life expectancy will have gone up immensely. Your idea of increased cylinder capacity in conjunction with a tightbore will give you better accuracy and should give you more consistant fps. Both of which are good things. If your doing the work yourself and don't really know your way around a mechbox, remember that the quality of your parts is only 10% of the upgrade, with workmanship and attention to detail being 90%. Shimming and lubrication are THE most important aspects of mechbox assembly and higher fps guns need much more attention. Good luck.

February 10th, 2006, 02:23	#9
Mantelope Scotty aka harleyb Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario	Keep in mind of course that the boreup kit is only useful if you're using extreme barrel lengths, i.e. 650mm. Anything less and you'll be getting better consistency from a regular full cylinder. __________________

February 10th, 2006, 13:03	#10
VADER Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: in my own little world	Thanks to all of you that have given your input thus far. Has anyone had experience with the bore-up set up in conjunction with longer-than-stock, tightbore barrels? In other words, will a 550mm be a better match with the bore-up or will a 650mm still work well? (I can't seem to get anyone to agree on this). Thanks.

Q's on upgrading a CA M-16

Upgrades & Modifications