TM MK23 Range

[shiftline]

I just got my TM Mk23 in the mail along with some Y&P Mags and a PDI tight bore barrel.

I put the new barrel in the gun and filled the mags with propane however it doesnt seem to have that great of range. If i turn the hop up all the way up or down it doesnt seem to do much (if i look down the barrel i can see it moving the nub)

I heard it can outshoot lots of stock aegs but this isnt exactly happening for me


What kind of range do you guys get with yours?

[Styrak]

What are you currently getting?

[shiftline]

I would guess 60'-70' then it drops off

[BloodSport]

60' to 70' for a pistol is pretty decent if you think about it. it's meant to be a sidearm for close combat.

Get out to a local game get it chronied and test it there against other pistols to get a better comparism.

Couple things I've learnt with pistol upgrades. Sometimes when you change just 1 part you loose performance.

Going to a tightbore only you may drop some FPS/distance but gain accuracy. But change you valve or throw in a powerup bulb with that tightbore and wham, more FPS, distance and accuracy. Every one of my pistols I've upgrade I've talked to Illusion about first, told him what I wanted perfomance wise, then handed over the money he asked for to send me the parts to make it so. Every time I've done this I've yet to be disappointed.


Also, what BB's are you using? Are you ensuring the mags are filled properly? Did you check to make sure you didnt damage the hop up? Is the bucking seated properly in the hopup and around the barrel?

[Ballcancer]

Ya I would agree that is fairly decent range for a pistol.. I get maybe 80 ft max with my USP on a windless day and accuracy at that range is very sloppy.. like bloodsport said its meant to be used as a secondary for when ur primary goes down..

[Skladfin]

with my mk23 i can get it out to 150~180ish with 0.30 and correctly adjusted hop up (no over hop).

this is while chronoing around 340fps ish w/ 0.20g BBs. upgrades are Nineball rubber and KM TN tightbore.

so id say something's wrong with your hop up. you didn't assemble it correctly. Particularly the wheel and the lever.

[shiftline]

Ill strip it down again tonight and take a look at it.
Mk23 is supsoto go far like skladfins!

Im using .25 bbs with propane


What is a powerup bulb ?

[coach]

Wash the hopup rubber with hand soap and warm water. Probably don't need to bend the metal part as you can see the nub move.

Remember, we use silicon oil to keep mag seals and ring lubricated as well as the gun internals. When you fire your gun, oil sprays all over the hopup, which most times negates any spin you're trying to induce on the BB.

My results are similar to skladfin's since we have the same upgrades.

Also, I'm using modded TM mags. Safety valve disabled. Don't know what the YP mags flow valves output either.

[CDN_Stalker]

I can't comment on the TM NBB, but my TM MK23 springer with 0.25g would get out to 60ft max (directed at Bloodsport). My KSC MK23 could do a straight 150ft w/0.28g before dropping. Different platform, yes, but roughly same barrel length and using propane.

[m102404]

A "power up bulb" is the floating valve (in some pistols it's a rocket-like shape) that "switches" the flow of gas from down the barrel (i.e. to shoot the bb out) to trapped in the nozzle (i.e. to start the recoil cycle).

Illusion would be able to comment in more precise detail, but here is my Layman's understanding.

A heavier bulb will not move forward to switch to the recoil cycle as fast as a lighter bulb/valve. So essentially more gas is shot down the barrel vs. before. More gas typically means more velocity. However, I am of the mind that to really pickup the benefits of that increased amount of gas, a long barrel and heavier BBs are necessary to let that gas build up pressure. I would not expect to see a tiny 4" barrel benefit AS MUCH as a 5"+ barrel. The MK23 has a great long barrel...so that's good.

Now, the valve is held in the starting position of open by a little spring. If that spring is too soft, the valve will close prematurely (relative to getting the optimal amount of gas down the barrel for max FPS). If that spring is too stiff, the valve will remain open and the mag will simply vent all it's gas, never starting the recoil cycle. So there's a bit of a balance between the spring and the valve. Personally, I want a pistol to function 100% of the time...and if that's on the safe side of squeezing out 1 more FPS that might cause a failure..that's ok. Part of that reliability functioning is making sure I have enough gas to shoot all my shots out of the mag....rapid or slow fire. Rapid fire will cause a great amount of cool down in pretty much any pistol mag...some handle it better than others. Again, the Mk23 has a nice big gas resevior...so that's good.

So...know you know how the valve works...what to do? How do you figure out what's the optimal balance? What part to replace/swap/upgrade?

General rules of thumb when fiddling:
1. Change one thing at a time
2. Chrony to be certain, everything else is just guessing
3. Keep the temp and fill of your mags consistent (usually means topped up and skin temp warm).
4. Disregard the first shot of a fully gassed mag...it'll usually chrony a bit lower than the rest (gas pressure is really high in the mag after a full fill...evens out after there's some expansion room)

Personally, I'd do the following in this order...'cause (IMHO) it's the easiest/best blend of bang for buck without massive headaches:
1. Tightbore and hopup rubber...for mild FPS boost but mainly accuracy (gotta still hit what you're aiming at)
2. Recoil spring...for quick follow up shots and action (it's fun)
3. Nozzle and o-ring/piston seal...for durability and optimal recoil
* maybe a light weight blow back at this point if it's a hicapa
4. HiFlow knocker valve in the mag(s)...6-15fps boost with a change to a part that's pretty much guaranteed not to screw up your pistol. Downside is you need to do each mag
5. Heavier float valve...personally, I have seen some improvement in some guns...nothing in others. I've seen them cause reliability problems in some, and resolve reliability issues in others.
6. For hot summers I'd put in an enhanced main spring....
* if it's really hot, most stock knockers are going to take a pounding with an enhanced main spring...so I'd consider a steel knocker...which will lead to wear on a pot-metal hammer...so maybe a steel hammer...which will lead to wear on a pot-metal sear...so maybe a steel sear too.

So...hopefully you can tell that some "upgrades" are relatively cheap, easy to do, don't really affect the balance of other parts of the system. Some upgrades result in higher FPS....others don't. But to support how you get to the higher FPS...some related parts might need to be upgraded.

The ONLY sure thing is this:
Often, the fastest way to ruin a perfectly good pistol is to upgrade it.

If you really, really understood all of the above...great. If you haven't and want to get go buck wild with your pistol, do what Bloodsport does...tell Illusion what you want to end up with, give him fist fulls of money, wait paitiently and politely and let him do his thing.

Best of luck

Tys

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by m102404

A
The ONLY sure thing is this:
Often, the fastest way to ruin a perfectly good pistol is to upgrade it.

Quoted for truth! Lol, the other way to ruin a perfectly good pistol is to shoot the crap out of it, hence both my G19s being down, well over 10,000 rounds through each.

[m102404]

Wearing one out isn't very fast...no matter how hard you try

I took all the busted up G19's from TTAC3 (loaner/training stuff). They'd had years of use, zillions of rounds through them and were massively abused.

Took most of 5 broken pistols and was still able to get one working one out them. Lots of parts left over, but not quite enough for a whole pistol.

I think Testtube took the rest of the box of stuff.

Same with a lot of Hicapa's...swap on a quality metal slide and a stiff recoil spring and the pistol (and nicely so their mags) will run for years and years and years.

I think MadMax is still running his first Hicapa....modded and hacked, but still going strong.

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by m102404

Wearing one out isn't very fast...no matter how hard you try

I took all the busted up G19's from TTAC3 (loaner/training stuff). They'd had years of use, zillions of rounds through them and were massively abused.

Took most of 5 broken pistols and was still able to get one working one out them. Lots of parts left over, but not quite enough for a whole pistol.

I think Testtube took the rest of the box of stuff.

Same with a lot of Hicapa's...swap on a quality metal slide and a stiff recoil spring and the pistol (and nicely so their mags) will run for years and years and years.

I think MadMax is still running his first Hicapa....modded and hacked, but still going strong.

He ended up with a non-working KWA G19 and got me to try to fix it, wasn't able to so he basically gave it to me to use for parts. Unlucky for me, I took both my troublesome KSC G19s apart to pieces, plus the KWA, and took all the best to make one working pistol. And as what typically pisses me off, ran perfectly at home through a few mags, but go to use it (when I actually NEEDED it!) at the game and it spewed gas first shot. Tried another mag, same thing. So I said fuck it, bought a super sweet FMU KSC MK23 for a good price (my previous one was acting up and the slide was cracking), used that my last game last year. This year I have that and a Crosman C11 Automag to use. Don't have much time to work on, or trust, in my G19s anymore these days.

[shiftline]

Well turning the hopup almost full gave me a bit more rang, bb seems to curve to the right a bit (just twist barrel to the left to fix?)
That and i was shooting up hill, have to find a good place to fully test and not scare neighbors :P

[shiftline]

So i bent the hopup tab thing a bit and with the hop-up almost full i get some decent range now.. Is it worth buying a new hopup rubber or was it just the mtal that needed to be bent