Yet Another Thread About Duster Gas & Green Gas... With a Twist?

[yoyit2]

Okay, so i just picked up a TM 18c GBB and threw a PGC Chrome Aluminum Slide onto it. After reading around and finding info on the gun i have made the decision to run Propane/GG (i know about the hammer spring... from experience), but i still wanted to try duster. So reading around on ASC and googling it i found that pretty much every one says to use Tetraflorathane (71ish PSI) rather then Diflorathane (64psi). here are my PERSONAL FINDINGS:

Propane (125psi): best range/power but hit and miss on cool down effects depending on weather. generally get about one mag through the gun using 3-4 round bursts.. hot days i have to purge the 50 round mag to make it work on Propane. 25 round mag fires the 1st 2 shots like a springer then works fine. once my new hammer spring/recoil spring arrive, i will update this thread with my findings in performance. once the mag starts cooling down, i might get another 3 shots of slow ROF then its dead. Using propane, the recoil on full auto is LITERALLY uncontrollable for ranges past 75ft if you use more then 3-4 round bursts! - dont even TRY to do this with one hand, youll struggle to hit a guy 50ft away from you! put it this way.. there is SO MUCH recoil, its enough to jar the safety into the "on" position!! (not a complaint, its more realistic and is AWSOME!) while on semi, i can hit a man sized target at 125ft using .25g - actually measured out the distance.

Tetraflorathane (71ish psi) is absolutely useless and nothing more then a paper weight! even on a hot day, i might get 6-7 rounds off (regardless if im using the 50 round or the 25 round mag). the cool down absolutely SUCKS! and its about 2x the price of Diflorathane!


Diflorathane (61ish psi)- works like a friggen charm! cool down effects are minimal even during bad weather. ive never had a problem getting through an entire mag - AND locking the slide back - on either the 25 or 50 round mags. the range is limited to about 100ft - once again, actually measured. i dont have as much recoil on full auto, which produces better full auto groupings. once the mag starts to cool down, the ROF drops, but it will continue to fire the same otherwise.




The Reason i wanted to try all three gasses, is because no one seemed to beable to tell me which gas had less cool down effects, which is obviously a big concern for a full auto GBB. i could care less about FPS as long as its Accurate, with good range, and ROF. so... why is it that Tetra doesnt seem to work at all for me? from what i understood, it should be the better choice between DI and Tetra....

when testing all three gasses, after filling the mag, i let the mags warm up for about 5mins before any shooting. i also let the tank pressure equalize with the mag pressure for best results. what i mean is, i didnt fill it for a set amount of time, ie 3sec, but rather listened to the tank to hear when the mag/tank pressure equalized. - this seems to work best for me.

My Cousin has the Exact same GBB, running the standard Plastic slide (about 7 days difference in GBB age) and all of my above finding are the same on his 18c. can you guys give me some input here? Thanks in advanced!



BTW:
THIS GUNS IS AMAZING! the accuracy is AWSOME! best GBB ive owned!!

[kullwarrior]

from what I learned in the past, Difluoro will eat O-ring while Tetra doesnt...just a note.
As for gas vaporization, I find Propylene>Propane>Tetra>Difluoro

[Styrak]

Your addition of the metal slide may have affected you results.
Just saying.

[yoyit2]

from what i understand, Propylene is approx 130PSI (hadnt even heard of this idea till now lol) so.... i shouldn't use that in a marui right? lol? and by "gas vaporization" do you mean, what i understand as "cool down effect"?

about the diflouro eating seals... yeah now i remember reading something about that, just forgot about that part... uh, even if i use lots of lube? or is it just better to stay away from it? any personal findings?

ive always been and AEG/AEP guy.. never had much luck with GBB. im a pretty big noob when it comes to GBB(R) in general, just wanting some further information.

[MultipleParadox]

Just a note:

*Tetrafluoroethane*
and
*Difluoromethane*

--

Input: I recall reading that Difluoromethane could potentially break down the seals and o-rings. You might want to read about this before continuing on using these, as I'm not sure at all about the validity of this statement.

As for myself, I use propane in my KWA M93R NS2. Aluminium slide, 32rounds mags.

Cooldown is noticeable but didn't impact performance much. At about 20 degrees Celsius, I could fire a good mag and a half, if not two, on full auto. That is with reloading the same mag after it's emptied.

Then again, the loading nozzle split in half after about 800-1000 rounds. I'm pretty sure it did becaise of a lack of lubrication between the nozzle and the slide's top, so it probably have nothing to do with the gas used. I hear KWA's pistols are meant to be used on greengas anyways, so...


Edit: yeah so I got beatten about the seals and difluoro :P that's what I get by typping on an iPhone :P

[yoyit2]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Your addition of the metal slide may have affected you results.
Just saying.

i did state that the above was tested on both a plastic and a metal slide.. just saying

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by yoyit2

i did state that the above was tested on both a plastic and a metal slide.. just saying

Oopsies, I see it now.

[yoyit2]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Oopsies, I see it now.

sorry man, i think i read that one with my flame shields a little to high lol. my first thought on posting this thread was: "okay... im going to get flamed o.0" so with that mentality i read it a little biased.

[L473ncy]

I think in some GBBR demos the mags had HPA (or CO2) lines attached to them. Could you do a similar kind of setup with some sort of one way check valve and pressure control valve to make it safe for GBB operation?

ie. You'd have a small 8 oz HPA tank + line leading up to your mag with pressure control valves to regulate pressure so your pistol doesn't blow up in your face. AFAIK HPA has no cool down whatsoever since it's pressureized air and doesn't need to change states and just expands compared to a liquid turning into a gas (endothermic "reaction").

[yoyit2]

hmm... that would be a sweet idea! but wouldnt reloading kinda suck?

[iKliiu]

Isn't propylene an asphyxiant?

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by iKliiu

Isn't propylene an asphyxiant?

AFAIK its the same danger has pure propane except it blows you up at faster, bigger explosion. In general in hydrocarbons, double bond is more reactive than single. Same holds true for triple vs double. (OrganicChem note: suffix -ane is single bond. -ene is double bond, -yne is triple bond.

Originally Posted by L473ncy

I think in some GBBR demos the mags had HPA (or CO2) lines attached to them. Could you do a similar kind of setup with some sort of one way check valve and pressure control valve to make it safe for GBB operation?

ie. You'd have a small 8 oz HPA tank + line leading up to your mag with pressure control valves to regulate pressure so your pistol doesn't blow up in your face. AFAIK HPA has no cool down whatsoever since it's pressureized air and doesn't need to change states and just expands compared to a liquid turning into a gas (endothermic "reaction").

I used to have a CO2 tank attached to palmer stabilizer w/ fill valve adapter, there's still a drop in psi if you fire full auto since gas dont release instantaneous into reduce pressure chamber. Single stage is expected a 10-20psi drop while double is around 2-5psi.

for KSC mags I have crank up the pressure up to 170psi before, ran without a problem (really really loud though, I suspect prolong use will cause parts to prematurely break)

at SATP
HFC134a is around ~75
HFC152 is around ~61
Propane is around ~110
Propylene is around ~130
R440A is around ~160 (Non-HFC compound commonly used as a refrigeant, in US there's a group of people actually using it for their GBB for winter games.)

[yoyit2]

so, with running HPA on a 50rnd Glock Mag.. wouldnt i have to disconnect the air line every time i change a mag? any pointers on where i can get my hands on airsoft HPA stuff?

KSC MP7 on HPA
YouTube - KSC MP7 GBB SMG on HPA

[MadMax]

Your pressure is wrong for propane. Propane exerts about 125psi at 20C.

What are you using for a chrony?

[yoyit2]

yeah i was going by memory lol thanks, ill edit my original post.

I havn't chrono'd the GBB yet but id guess 330ish on green?