What is "Milsim" to you?

[Derpystronk]

Airsoft, more specifically, "Milsim" has changed a lot when I first started playing. When I first started just over 5 years ago, every Milsim operated under the phrase "if you're not miserable, it's not a milsim" - You were routinely asked to stay on defense, do actual work like digging holes or fortifying positions, and spending most of a 24 hour period not doing anything.

Most games I see have people leaving early now after they have had their fill, or saying games where they are fighting for only 12 out of 24 hours as "boring" - Milsim in a lot of ways has now come to mean skirmish.

I'm slowly trying to work back to the fundamentals of Milsim - but I need input from you guys. What makes a game a Milsim for you? What elements are important to the game? What have you found distracts from the overall experience? What would you like to see more of and what would you like to see less of?

[Cliffradical]

"Boring" is fun.
The Milsim community is being revived in Manitoba over time by some motivated individuals (Long May They Reign), but it appears to be a gradual process. A lot of it seems to be giving players exposure to it through highly directed games so that they can build a new headspace for it.

Due to the population and group dynamics of Manitoba, we've found that it might be a good idea to have two games running in the same space; one that's faster and more action oriented with built in rest periods for the rabble and the uninitiated, and one that's slower that works around areas won and lost by the 'fast' game.
Still very much experimental, but shows promise.

Talk to Evan, I can't remember his name on here, maybe Wrath144?

[Grudge]

I think for many that don't know about what is really involved in Milsim, and are only into the fast paced scrim games. There needs to be a middle step. Call it Milscrim.

Milsim, to me, is objective based game play with clearly defined roles and rule of engagement. Its not about trigger time its about strategy, team dynamics, working as a unit, clear communications. Its about out thinking your opponent rather than out shooting him. This does not what many younger (and some older) airsofters want, they count their kills and decide if they had a good day by the ratio of deaths to kills. I use to be like that.

In Milscrim you could start to get the speedballers interested in more objectives than killing the enemy. This can have some of the objective, team oriented stuff going on, but still have a good amount of trigger time and action. This is where I'm at now. I love this kind of game play. And it seems that the younger, faster players are good with it as well.

[pestobanana]

More games where people go to sleep in CP at 10 and half the team leaves by 11.

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

More games where people go to sleep in CP at 10 and half the team leaves by 11.

MVP.

[daishi]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

More games where people go to sleep in CP at 10 and half the team leaves by 11.

More games where the gates are padlocked and you have your keys turned in to game control so they know who the lil' bitches are. Only way to leave is the game ends or your wife is having a baby or something relevant.

[nardac]

My first big event was Rhino 2, I believe they were locking the gates there if I'm correct. Thought to myself, "wow this is cool shit"

I started 5 years ago, made the switch from paintball/woods ball because I enjoyed more tactical based games.

For myself personally Milsim, means being organized into military style units with leaders, command, a set structure and clear objectives. It's not about size, but quality of game play.

I don't expect to be in a gun fight all the time, but for me I'd expect 3-4 good battles in a 24hr period. Setting up a FOB, ambush, going on patrol, providing support and relieving other squads, taking prisoners, gathering Intel, it all speaks to me.

Yes I want to sling plastic, but I also want some strategy and realism. I don't want to guard a position for 8 hrs that will never see contact. If digging a hole is required for me to fortify my position, then I dig. I don't want senseless random tasks because that's what they do in the real military.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

I may as well post my Milsim manifesto here as well

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

[:^)]

A joke.

[Ricochet]

Big thread on this already. And it was in the stickies.http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=159185

[Hectic]

I enjoyed milsim until all the rich kids got gen 3 nods. Kinds changed the game a little but I still enjoy it. I do get the point of those who "play 12 of 24 hours" however they need to understand that war or simulation of war isn't designed to be like call of duty team death match. That's a skirmish. A milsim has you doing things that may seem pointless however if your doing them right they are having an impact on the rest of your team and the enemy etc...
Now I like the immersion factor. Give me a ghillie and a partner and an AO and let me know what you need. I'll communicate with my partner and they can watch my ass and handle all other communication. Let me know who you need watched, located or dead and I'm on it.
I can do that for 4 hours of a 30 hour game and then run assault or recon or go chill at the base camp. I can stay in my AO until endex and not fire a shot, that's milsim because that's exactly what can happen to a sniper any given work day. To me, as I basically have said, if it's realistic then it's milsim. If it's 3 respawn move the box or rescue the piolet the swap sides. That's skirmish.

[ThunderCactus]

A game in which it is actually beneficial and desirable to AVOID a firefight from time to time.
Bragging rights for blowing out 5 tiki torches on your own while a team of 30 people is patrolling around them. It's fun to do stuff OTHER than shoot eachother from time to time.

I sympathize with Hectic. Being one of those dickbags with gen3, I would like to handicap myself to make it less advantageous while still keeping it fun. And also without having to install enough lights on the field to make it look like daytime.
Scatter a few tiki torches about, NV uses pistol only, siege where only attackers have NV, etc.

[Metalsynth]

The main element here missing is that the military culture is not very involved in organizing milsim events like msw is to help refocus the very definition of milsim back to it's core in some areas of the country.

...forget that, it's the millennials fault.

[Hectic]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

A game in which it is actually beneficial and desirable to AVOID a firefight from time to time.
Bragging rights for blowing out 5 tiki torches on your own while a team of 30 people is patrolling around them. It's fun to do stuff OTHER than shoot eachother from time to time.

I sympathize with Hectic. Being one of those dickbags with gen3, I would like to handicap myself to make it less advantageous while still keeping it fun. And also without having to install enough lights on the field to make it look like daytime.
Scatter a few tiki torches about, NV uses pistol only, siege where only attackers have NV, etc.

It's not that i am against NV of any kind it just always winds up being 1 sided as all the kids with the cool toys tend to stick together lol. Just sleep at night and harris them all the next day while they are sleepy from being up all night patrolling empty trails lol.

[Ricochet]

Rich kids? lol

Most of the guys I know with high end gear worked their butts off for it and allocated more personal budget than others. Skill and team work will always be the best tool, but I've never seen a sport/game where technology has such a deep effect. One thermal imager on the field can drastically alter a teams advantages, and you what? I dig it. Bring it on, raise the bar, tear up the competition, go ahead. Like minded players always stick together. Give another team a bevy of humvees, with platoons of NV wearing, thermal rocking goodness and I'll return the next year with an EMP. I'm partially kidding of course. I'm sure some limits will always be set, but if you can afford it, find it, use it effectively, all the power to you, because I definately will if I can. I've been outgunned at night with no NVs, when it seemed everyone on the other team had something, and we still won. I love the technological potentials in airsoft.

As for milsim, it's rarely very milsim at all. I like the simulation side as an balancing point, but the tactically competitive nature is where it's at. If you're not going through motions of doing military action (patrols, etc), then it isn't very realistic. Leave the storylines and role playing out of it, we don't need to know why. Layout the scenario guidelines and how to win, i.e. hostages, infiltration, etc, throw a bunch of teams into the mix and let them battle it out. Realism for balance and dynamic, but without the fluff, winning or competition will always be the end focus, so unless you want to reinact, come to kickass, not to pretend you're a soldier.