What do you think of these upgrade parts?

[Falcon_MB]

After reading Greylocks thread on smart upgrades and Gypsy's very informative thread on exactly what everything does, I've made my choices for a first set of upgrades to an TM M4-A1.

My goal is to make a fairly accurate long range rifle, shooting near 400fps without going over. Also hoping to get some good reliability.

So here are the parts I'm thinking of:

Area1000 Oilless Bearing A15 (Bushing)
Systema Metal Shim Set
Systema Metal Chamber Set M16-A2, M4A1 (metal hop up)
Systema Spur Gear Set Torque Up Ratio
Madbull Black Python 6.03mm Tight Bore Barrel (363mm)
Systema Taper Spring M120
Systema Taper Spring M100

Price including shipping is around $200cdn.

The reason I'm ordering 2 springs is to make sure I stay under the 400fps limit to the fields in my area.

Well let me know what you experienced guys think. I'm ok swallowing my pride and asking for advice.

[Groombug]

Have you been to a game before?

Toss the gear set, hop chamber and A1000 bearings.

Get sintered bushings, bearing spring guide, silent piston head kit.

Your stock gearbox will thank you for it.

agreed. the area1000 stuff is bargin bin stuff. lower systema quality

the M120 can put you over 400fps...others will have to confirm. Prometheus MS110sp is the best way to get close to 400fps but staying under.
a tightbore, piston head kit and a bearing spring guide can up your fps also.

fyi, the M4 has considerably short barrel and isnt a long range gun really. really, the longer the barrel, the more accurate.

[odp]

Another reason to ditch the 1-piece hop-up is that you'll lose the quick takedown ability and IIRC you have to carve up the body to fit it.

[Falcon_MB]

Originally Posted by Groombug

Have you been to a game before?

Toss the gear set, hop chamber and A1000 bearings.

Get sintered bushings, bearing spring guide, silent piston head kit.

Your stock gearbox will thank you for it.

I'm a member of the Manitoba Airsoft Association going on 3 years. I've been to my fair share of games. And before you say "Well I can't read minds" my tag has a link to my old buy/sell profile from 2 years ago, I state I'm from Winnipeg, my ASC join date is 2004, and I'm age verified so I had to know someone locally to confirm for ASC.

Don't mean to be an ass with the above, but I do try to be a little professional when asking for help so that I don't get mistaken for a noob. Anyways now that I've offended someone....

About the A1000 Systema bushings - Is that simply your opinion that they're not good enough, or do you have something to back that up. The thing I find with these boards is that gearbox discussion discussions are a lot of opinion and not enough supporting fact. You say they suck, I've read others who say they're great, etc etc. Heck I even read that "sintered" is the same as "oilless" So what gives?

The guns hop up is all messed up somehow, after getting the inner barrel out and playing with it it seems the gears that make the hop up go down are broken somehow. It goes down just a bit, then "pops" back out. It's just plain giving little to no hop. So replacing the whole unit is easier. (I hope there's not body mods needed, it stated that it was built for the M4)

One thing I regret not ordering was the bearing spring guide. I'm not putting another order to RedWolf for just the spring guide, so how long do you think the stock one will last AND what problems should I expect to encounter?



Sorry, it's really late 3:35am and I have to be up at 6am, then leave for an Op at 10am... so I'm on low sleep and don't plan on getting much. Thank you for the responses, I really do appreciate them as I'm in the learning stage for a lot of the internal stuff. Instead of just "Do this" I'd like "Do this, because of this" so I understand what to do and why to do it.

Thanks

[yanhchan]

Originally Posted by Droc

agreed. the area1000 stuff is bargin bin stuff. lower systema quality

the M120 can put you over 400fps...others will have to confirm. Prometheus MS110sp is the best way to get close to 400fps but staying under.
a tightbore, piston head kit and a bearing spring guide can up your fps also.

fyi, the M4 has considerably short barrel and isnt a long range gun really. really, the longer the barrel, the more accurate.

Well if he really needs to I'm guessing he might get a barrel thats really long and just slide a silencer over it, I don't know if the extra 6 inches helps though

Quoted from the guy who knows best.

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Area 1000 is Systema's "budget/economical" line. The build quality and feature sets are equivalent to Guarder. Standard Systema are usually built with better materials and finished a bit nicer.

[BC_K]

An M16, AK47, Aug, M14, G3, CA33, or CA36 (full size G36) might be more to your likings.

They are perfect platforms with mid/long range in mind. Also can just toss your upgrade parts in and toss in a tightbore barrel. Instant mid/long range gun.

[shbadmintonclub]

Originally Posted by BC_K

An M16, AK47, Aug, M14, G3, CA33, or CA36 (full size G36) might be more to your likings.

They are perfect platforms with mid/long range in mind. Also can just toss your upgrade parts in and toss in a tightbore barrel. Instant mid/long range gun.

From I have been reading, I believe that Falcon_MB already owns the M4 and is looking to upgrade it.

[Falcon_MB]

Originally Posted by shbadmintonclub

From I have been reading, I believe that Falcon_MB already owns the M4 and is looking to upgrade it.

@ shbadmintonclub - Thank you for actually reading my posts. I created this thread to get useful advice because the sticky's say that I should since I'm new to upgrading (as opposed to new to the sport). What I'd like to get responses on are reasons, rather than opinions.

@Droc - Ok, Illusion makes hald a point. The other half that I'm looking for is this... so it's their "budget" line, about as good as guarder (from what I've heard guarder makes some good stuff...?)

The second part is missing... so it's budget. What problems should I expect? Are they going to break apart? Cause heat problems? Break the gear axles? Talk back to me? Or does it mean that "Well I wouldn't use them with a 300% spring because they're not up to the task." Just like getting a helical gear set with using m120 max power springs. Regular flat reinforced will work fine. So they're not as good as the most expensive systema bushings possible... will they work, be reliable, or not?

[Gryphon]

I know about this M4, it actually belongs to a mutual friend of Falcon's and myself. He's tried selling it many times to no avail; flakers abound. He's finally gotten fed up with everyone dicking him around so he's decided to keep it and make it a gameable weapon to add to his collection. About the only thing it truly needs at the moment is a new hop unit because the present one doesn't change anything when you adjust it, and the wheels never bottom out in either direction so I assume it's busted.

He's hell-bent on getting it to 400 fps although I think that's a waste of time given that it's a TM. Makes more sense to sink money into upgrading his better guns and leave this one as a backup. Personally I'd install a Prometheus MS100, Systema tightbore (they're cheap), bearing spring guide, metal bushings, and be done with it. That ought to put him around the 350 mark and not break the bank, leaving cash for the M14 and M15.

[ILLusion]

For clarification, just because A1000 are budget line, it doesn't mean they're crap. They'll get the job done just fine and can handle rather heavy loads. They just don't have added features such as oil channels and stuff like that. The tolerance is also a tad bit looser, but generally, you won't notice the difference.

"Oilless" and "sintered" are different marketing names, but they are both made with a sintering process.

Area1000 does not make bearings. These are bushings - chalk it up to poor Japanese Engrish translations. These are bushings, despite whatever Systema calls them.



Regarding the spring guide, your stock one will last for no more than around 10,000 rounds (guesstimate) if you do not have bearings at either end of the spring. The first things to snap off will be the posts holding it still in the gearbox. Then all kinds of things can go funny, from the base cracking to the guide snapping clean off the base or even down the length of it. You won't get too much damage if this happens, but your system will no longer be efficient. You may cause excessive wear to the piston, piston head, and cylinder if this were to happen.

Like Groombug says, I highly recommend a silent head set.


With a spring that heavy, if you're intent on using 8.4v mini batteries, I'd recommend getting a torque up gear set. ROF won't be great, but at least you can get around 800 shots out of a fresh battery. I use to run a setup like that in my P90 for several seasons and it shot great. ROF wasn't as disgustingly high like I have it now, but it worked well with a mini battery, even through the winter season.

[Falcon_MB]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

For clarification, just because A1000 are budget line, it doesn't mean they're crap. They'll get the job done just fine and can handle rather heavy loads. They just don't have added features such as oil channels and stuff like that. The tolerance is also a tad bit looser, but generally, you won't notice the difference.

"Oilless" and "sintered" are different marketing names, but they are both made with a sintering process.

Area1000 does not make bearings. These are bushings - chalk it up to poor Japanese Engrish translations. These are bushings, despite whatever Systema calls them.
*snip*

Please, PLEASE everyone who reads this take note of how Illusion responded. It was clear, concise, offered no bullshit, gave reasons and accurate descriptions.

Thank you for responding to the bushing discussion Illusion. I had actually researched it myself and was pretty sure that they weren't "bearing" bushings. I also found that oiless and sintered are the same. But I thought that maybe I could have been wrong or my knowledge inaccurate and it goes to prove that a lot of people "think" they know what they're talking about via hearsay or whatever based on some of the responses I received.

In the future I would probably order the prometheus sintered bushings simply because they're a tighter tolerance, have the oil channel deal, and they're only $5 more. But thank you for answering the question of "will they get the job done without problems?"

I also ordered the torque up gears for the exact reason of battery life. And I personally don't trust the stock TM gears on a powerful spring. I've seen them chewed up first hand. Beside personally me and most of my team don't put stock on a high ROF. Myself I feel if you can't get it done with one or two 1-second bursts you just can't get it done. :snipe: Of course that solid line of BB's would be great for bastards who don't call their shots. :duke:

I am also going to order a bearing spring guide. I want the mechbox to last longer than 10,000 shots. The silent piston head is outside the budget right now, more important things like more mags and gear are taking precedence for the next few months.

Lastly as far as those saying get the MS100 or MS110... I would have ordered an MS110 instead of the M100, however RedWolf Airsoft didn't have the MS110 in stock and I wasn't going to split the order between WGC and Redwolf just for a spring. (wgc was out of certain items and vice versa) I might get a MS110 and order the spring guide from WGC this time around.

New Questions:

Which bearing spring guide to get? Why?

More info on the operation of a silent piston head, why it's nicer for the gearbox, etc?

What exactly needs to be done to the lower receiver to fit the systema hop up unit onto the stock tm body? Not quite sure why Systema advertises it as a M4/M16 specific hop up if an M4 needs modification to fit it. Being Systema is a Japanese company, and (I may be wrong so correct me if I am) the Japanese aren't allowed to have metal bodied guns, why would they make hop up units that wouldn't fit onto TM bodies that have a relative monopoly on the airsoft market in Japan...?

[shbadmintonclub]

Originally Posted by AirsoftPlayers.com

If you search the AirsoftZone forums, you will find older reports of the silenced piston heads actually coming apart inside of the mechbox. These reports haven't been substantiated very well recently, so since I have no problem entering my mechbox, I am willing to take that risk.

Source: AirsoftPlayers

Did Systema put a fix to this recently?

[Mantelope]

Originally Posted by shbadmintonclub

Source: AirsoftPlayers

Did Systema put a fix to this recently?

Things like that should have Loctite applied anyway. Plain common sense, doesn't matter if it's an airsoft gun or a motorcycle or an airplane.