Thinking about giving up and leaving AS...

[HellRanger]

Well, I'm seriously thinking of putting everything up for sale and leaving w/o looking back.

I remember just a few years ago when Sierra introduced me to AS. We had long discussions and one of the main thing that stood out was respect. It was also a very closed community.

I feel like all the values we had are gone and I think it's worse in Quebec.

Crossing over to Ontario and spending the today @ the LZ is a whole different experience. It reminds me of the PQAC events, if you fucked up you were simply asked to pack your stuff and left.

What I have seen recently and that bugs me a lot, is the new talent doesn't seem to understand that it is still somewhat dangerous and we have to look out for eachother. And it's all about winning and body count. We had a guy in Quebec running around on the field with a golf counter thingy (I have no clue what it's called and I don't care).

MILSIMS, Ya right! Those are skirmishes with objectives! I haven't seen a real MILSIM in a long time.

And we also have the language dispute... which is totaly stupid.

So for many reason I might put all collection up for sale. I will take my decision in the next month or so.

[MilanWG]

What really irritates me about the airsoft community is that it seems people are more interested in being a gear whore or having the latest upgrade or the latest accessory. People seem to like dressing up in tons of tac vests and other gear that is over the top and unnecessary. Stop with the dress up time boyz. How can you feel ANY hits from other players under all that gear?!

This is all personal opinion, but I think airsoft needs to focus on playing the game and having fun. None of this mr.dress-up time.

White T-shirt is all you need.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. :smack:

[Coma]

In defense of Ontario airsoft, thats the first time I've heard of people being asked to leave the field. Once or twice people are asked to leave if they've done something very stupid, which you would reasonably expect them to leave after. Incidents of maliciously firing a BB into another player in the safe area for example. Don't judge the Ontario scene based on your first game in the area. Try other places like Wasaga and Flagraiders before you lose all hope and leave the game.

[Frozencricket]

While I agree that some new players play like it's CS, I find that most will at least call their hits. Some of the older players don't, which I find ridiculous. Just because they spent the money on real gear, they think that they don't have to call their hits? And these are some of the real hardcore MILSIM players, not just old folks out for a day of fun.

Give the young ones time to get the run-and-gun out of their system. You have to show them and mentor them. I'm glad that the players here in Ottawa are very supportive (for the most part). I've only been playing a year, but I've learned a lot. If all the old hands quit because the new guys are not playing their style, then we'll lose all that knowledge and experience. So, from a new player willing to learn to an experienced player, don't quit. We need people like you.

[C.G]

Only thing I'd have to add is that folks get into the hobby for all different reasons, the 'dress up' factor being one of them. Some guy's like the gear, enjoy getting kitted out and that's their decision of what they'd like to dump their resources into. (Personally I'm a cheap skate, if I could afford it, I might have a better kit, but as it stands my 3 little guns and few bdus suite me fine.)
We've all been new at some point, and when is it that the bridge is crossed from n00b to vet? A season? Six? *shrug* been playing a year, and I still consider myself new.
Taking that into consideration, I've heard a lot of people going on about new players, or at times how games are run different from province to province.. Well we use these boards to learn what to do and what not to.
If you see something on field you don't like, someone not calling a hit, or a newbie doing something incredibly dumb, talk to them. Be a man, suck it up, and be democratic... if your too p.o'ed to talk to that player then take it to the game host, that's what their there for. But personally, I do believe (again my personal opinion) that older players should say something at the time of any incident, just be friendly 'hey buddy, ya know, it really is going to piss off people when you... - ' don't do it to instigate but hopefully they'll learn from it.

Ultimately HR it's your choice to step out or not.. =p Depends what kinda gear we can squeeze outta ya first.

[HellRanger]

When ever we approach the new guys and tell them about their mistake they say "You guys bitch all the time!" and such.

I miss X-Ray and the good old PQAC event for shit like that...

It seems like games hosting is now a source of income to some people, so of course they are nto going to say anything 'cause they want that player and his friends back for the money.

Originally Posted by C.G

Only thing I'd have to add is that folks get into the hobby for all different reasons, the 'dress up' factor being one of them. Some guy's like the gear, enjoy getting kitted out and that's their decision of what they'd like to dump their resources into. (Personally I'm a cheap skate, if I could afford it, I might have a better kit, but as it stands my 3 little guns and few bdus suite me fine.)
We've all been new at some point, and when is it that the bridge is crossed from n00b to vet? A season? Six? *shrug* been playing a year, and I still consider myself new.
Taking that into consideration, I've heard a lot of people going on about new players, or at times how games are run different from province to province.. Well we use these boards to learn what to do and what not to.
If you see something on field you don't like, someone not calling a hit, or a newbie doing something incredibly dumb, talk to them. Be a man, suck it up, and be democratic... if your too p.o'ed to talk to that player then take it to the game host, that's what their there for. But personally, I do believe (again my personal opinion) that older players should say something at the time of any incident, just be friendly 'hey buddy, ya know, it really is going to piss off people when you... - ' don't do it to instigate but hopefully they'll learn from it.

Ultimately HR it's your choice to step out or not.. =p Depends what kinda gear we can squeeze outta ya first.

[Koopa]

It took 4 summers (about 40+games or 3 years) before I finally got to play a true milsim, the Woodstock 24 Hour VN game. Sure, there were plently of fun semi-milsim games over the years but none had the true re-enactment of being in battle. No breaks for lunch or safe-zone chats. Getting attacked while eating dinner or in your sleep. The game just went on and on as we continously assaulted each other's bases and patrols. And despite there were really no hard-goals (except find base and attack), the game kept our interest piqued. Also, people did dress up and killcounts were kept but it was done within the milsim context.

From what I know is that there have only been 3 games like this in the past 4 springs/summers (2 at woodstock, 1 at WP Muskoka). Most of them happened recently and Im hoping that there will be an increasing trend in the amount of games without designated lunches or breaks. The games where you come out dead tired and feeling like ass are the ones that you never forget and I hope there will be more to keep me in Airsoft

[SINN]

Try other places like Wasaga and Flagraiders before you lose all hope and leave the game.

hellranger, stay at the LZ! or come to muskoka....or you will leave airsoft! lol

You want milsim and not scrims, so that is why I joke about the other fields.

PS> this wasn't hellranger's first game in ontario.

[Blackthorne]

Yer hanging around with the wrong players dude.

Milsim is alive, it's just a smaller group. Unfortunately we still have to play at games where there are folks who don't take it as seriously. That's the nature of the sport right now. We may not like it, but it's either play at those games or don't play.

I am still hoping some day there will be a 48-120 hour op with some folks who are serious enought to take a fucking week of vacation and get really immersive. Those folks are out there man. It's just going to take some time.

I think the biggest barricade to a healthy Milsim environment right now is the lack of motivated, serious OPFOR. This issue takes an already small Milsim community and basically pits it against itself, effectively halving the numbers. Make for a great game tho.

Quite frankly, I have more fun training with the core group of people I play with right now. It's taken very seriously, pushes me mentally and physically, and transitions from AS to other areas of my life.

If I want to skirm, I'll play paintball.

[C.G]

It's really unfortunate that your finding that at your feilds. I'd assume players, especially new, wouldn't want their reps trashed and that's a biggie if you pull stupid shit. More so, hosts, atleast here have to use other paintball feilds, not their own, so none that I know of are really into it for revuenu. Suppose if your finding these problems then back out from the game for a while or stick to private hosted event's. Evrey season will bring up new players, I don't know how 'new' this problem is with vet's having issues with n00bs, you'd think it be something that would happen pretty much every spring/summer.

I'm still gearing myself up (mentally I guess) for a true milsim game. Skrimishes help teach ya what you need to know, before hitting up a milsim and doing really dumb things..personally I still make pretty dumb mistakes on occasion, rather wait for everything to come pretty much naturally before doing anything major..

'gain dude, if it's not clicking for you and your not having fun with the sport anymore, maybe just hold off from ditching it completely and go on haitus for a while, that and winters coming, don't see many newbies out in -10 or more degree weather..

[HellRanger]

It's hard to explain some of the issues that I have.

One good examble was @ the LZ someone was certain to have registred a hit on me with his pistol as he got shot from the CQB house and he was upset about it. I finally figured if the guy is that certain I might as well take it, I figured I didn't feel it not heard it. So, I was walking through hollywood and discussing it with Ex-Royal and the guy (sorry can't remember your name) overheard me and came over all pissed thinking I was complaning, I explained to him that I took the hit 'cause I figured he was right and everything was fine. He then came back to see later and told me, "When I think about it now, I'm not all that certain I actually hit you!" we laughed abotu it and that was it.

Most of the guy at the LZ are pretty intense, but are also mature enough to deal with issues properly.

One thing that gets to me is when you get hit in the head and you say something along the line of "Ouch! Right in the fucking head!" and the first thing your hear is a jackass laughuing at you, when the first thing that should follow is "Are you OK?". I got pissed at the guy trying to make him understand that he's reaction was not the best in the world, then I get the following answer "So what, I'm wearing a T-Shirt and get hit the arms all the time and I don't complain about it...". I just wanted to deck the guy on the spot....

I'm simply sick and tried of freaking assholes like that and we have way too many of those running around these days.

[Jackals]

From my point of view both as a player and game host, the most important part of airsoft is not if its a milsim or a skirmish day, but to have fun. At the end of the day, thats all that really matters.

Your right though HellRanger, too many hosts are about money and wont tell people to leave. Honestly, I dont have a problem telling people to leave at one of my games. However there has to be a damn good reason for doing it. Everyone makes mistakes, its a fact that we all deal with.

I dont think I would give up on the whole AS scene just yet. As FrozenCriket said, if all the "vets" left who would the new players learn from. Everyone has a certain style of play. Myself for example, I have none, I will generally play any kind of game. I am about having fun.

There are alot of new players, more so in the last couple months here in Ottawa. They all come from a paintball background and most still have that run-and-gun mentality. Once they get into the milsims or semi-milsims they will become better players. You just have to give them time and mentor them. If we dont take these new players and mentor them, then they will just keep playing run-and-gun.

As for assholes, guess what my friend, there sadly everywhere. In the Ottawa community we dont have too many, luckily.

This weekend at the foxden we had a noob vs vet day and it was probably one of the funner games I have played.

Ultimatily the choice is yours. I would hate to see you go seeing as I only meet you back at Holyman Redemption this season.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

As communities grow their character changes and factions splinter off of the larger group.

Long time players that I have had the opportunity to speak to lament the passing of "the old days" where everyone respected one another and shared common cause.

The old days are replaced with today.. where players who "just don't get it" seem to dominate the community...

I run 2 different facilities, TTAC3 which is an indoor CQB facility... and FTF which is an outdoor woodland field.
I have been successful in both places of developing a community that supports the type of operations I prefer.

For CQB a training based approach devoted to developing skill at arms and small team skills... and at FTF a group of players who enjoy MILSIM play over skirmish..

It has taken a while to acheive this.. and I would be lying if I said that I have not had to make concessions to attract players... but all in all I have stuck to the principles of working towards a "reality based" foundation to game play.

I have only had to turf a couple of players from games... most who do not "fit in" don't come back and that suites me fine.

The result.... I have created a "facton" or a subset of the wider community.. I have ignored "commonly accepted" pratices such as "mercy rules" to introduce more reality in CQB play in particular, A practice that got me initialy shunned by the wider community ( there were many other reasons as well some of them valid ) but over time I have carved a niche... and acheived a measure of acceptance in the community....Or at least the corner I inhabit..

So don't give up on this community... find where you fit.. and participate with those that you share a common "world view" with... The community is actually large enough for both the t shirt clad skirmisher and the heavily laden "gear whore" milsim enthusiast. On thing that is certain... a great many more "t shirt clad skirmishers" eventually come around to milsim and proper gear than "milsimers" turn to skirmishers... so there is reason for hope

[F34N0R]

i sympathize with you in many points hellranger.

-issues with new teammates
-lack of respect in the community (in quebec)
-in game behaviors (lack of maturity from many players)

About type of game, i think you know more than enough the community in quebec to choose your type of game with people you want to play with.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by beatbaker

What really irritates me about the airsoft community is that it seems people are more interested in being a gear whore or having the latest upgrade or the latest accessory. People seem to like dressing up in tons of tac vests and other gear that is over the top and unnecessary. Stop with the dress up time boyz. How can you feel ANY hits from other players under all that gear?!

You fucking PAY ATTENTION. While I am pretty basic when it comes to gear, I use a loadout that I would expect to use in the real world. You can hear and feel hit just fine unless you are in a really loud environment.

Originally Posted by beatbaker

This is all personal opinion, but I think airsoft needs to focus on playing the game and having fun. None of this mr.dress-up time.

What you call Mr. Dressup time others call challenge. Stick a couple of fucking steel Level III plates in your rig, a full 3 liter blader, a real world loadout of miscellanious crap (batteries, food, assorted kit) and a few extra pounds to simulate a real ammo load, and go play the same game you play in your tee shirt. I bet you have just a touch of trouble.

I want to experince what a soldier goes through, at least from a loadout perspective. It's not about fucking shooting people. It's about trying to APPRECIATE the real world environment, and still be able to complete whatever task you are set to do.

Originally Posted by beatbaker

White T-shirt is all you need.

And where do you put all your mags? Oh RIGHT..HI-CAPs....only need one.


go figure

You are NOT talking about Milsim. You are talking about skirmishing, and if that's what you are after you are one step away from paintball.

I ain't knocking the skirmish crowd, but I see a very CLEAR link between that crowd and the new, piss poor attitude, out to kill em all, rules are optional, MSN speak, "new generation of airsoft".

It takes very little skill, in my opinion, to run around in a painball field (a la Fagraiders), expend 1000-2000- BB's soaking averything to get kills.

Go sit in Muskoka in August and wait for an ambush opportunity. Don't see many skirmishers doing that. They can't even handle the blackflies, let alone have the patience to play a game where they only shoot 55 BB's.